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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > Should I have?

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:43 PM
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Default Should I have?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.40 SB) , , (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BB calls.

I'm guessing that anybody who called here had caught a piece of the flop, however, having watched these guys for about 40 hands, I'm guessing also that anybody with AJ or better would have raised PF, so I'm ahead at this point. A9 being the only hand that would scare me.

Turn: (3.20 BB) (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

I got the A9 covered at this point, but with his betting, I'm putting him on 2 pair...just smaller then I. He had been fairly decent player, so I'm guessing at this point that he's sitting on KT and I've got him seriously dominated. UTG+1 paused just slightly before betting. Not the kind pause that say's "I'm playing several tables at once", but the kind of pause that says "I think I'm beat, but I need to bet to be sure". Those of you who play LLHE may know what I'm talking about. What's really funny, is the rest of his betting screamed I've got the best hand. It was that initial pause that made me put him on 2 pair. UTG+1 was also the type (saw him do it earlier) that would raise PF with TT.

River: (11.20 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

I went with my original gut feeling that I had him beat...

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad Tc (two pair, aces and tens).
UTG+1 has Td Ks (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.20 BB.


My play? looking back, Should I have put him on a stronger hand and not played so aggressively?
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Last edited by Trons; 11-17-2005 at 11:27 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:15 PM
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My first thought on the turn and his raise was he had QJ and had just made str8! That would of course make me slow down and probably call it down.
K-T makes sense too. Nice pot
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Old 11-17-2005, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s
My first thought on the turn and his raise was he had QJ and had just made str8! That would of course make me slow down and probably call it down.
K-T makes sense too. Nice pot
What's really funny is I had thought about QJ when he first raised but dismissed it almost as quickly. He hadn't been playing like somebody who would draw to an inside str8.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:17 AM
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fold preflop

flop goot

turn goot

river... it really looks like AK/QJ/set, but if you had a read that you were ahead, i'd go ahead and bet/call it.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:47 AM
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Trons,

A10o limp UTG is a long term loser. Fold preflop. Do you always play this? I am a bit surprised, I thought you were pretty tight. What is your PT VPIP?
Flop good.
Turn good.
River I check/call against most players. That cap on the turn is for most players a sign you are beat. There is some theoretical chance he is capping for a free showdown but players at this level don't even know what that play is.

I am a bit puzzled by the following statement you made:
I got the A9 covered at this point, but with his betting, I'm putting him on 2 pair...just smaller then I. He had been fairly decent player, so I'm guessing at this point that he's sitting on KT and I've got him seriously dominated.

He could have JQ, A9, 910, K10 or even easily a set or AK and was just waiting until the turn to pounce. If you can put him somehow on lower two pair you are a better player than I!!
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Old 11-18-2005, 04:26 AM
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Growlers,

I usually play very tight. I am not sure why I played that hand, or how I got that read. My VPiP over all is 19.48 (over 14k hands) at that table it was 18.87. My BB/100 over all is only 1.66 (at .25/.5) but at that table it was 83.40. I took over $22 from that table with 53 hands. The deck was hitting me in the face and when that's happening, I tend to roll with it.

Obviously, with me having that low of a Vpip at that table, and playing AT UTG, my hands weren't that great, but when I played one, I would hit the flop. As for my reads, this was the same table I posted in Glory corner with the KK. I had several other hands I could have posted there, almost every hand I won was a big pot (over $5).

I would have stayed there all night, but unfortunately, things came up and I had to leave. I didn't get back to poker that night

As far as his possible holdings, I guess JQ was a possible holding, but he didn't seem to be the type of player to draw to an inside str8 which is what the T on the turn would have been. I hadn't seen any type of tricky plays from him such as waiting till the turn to pounce. I guess he could have switched up his play on that hand and had me covered, but I had to go with my read and trust it which is why I capped both turn and river.

Ever gotten a really good read on somebody online and you knew you were beat, but had to call because odds justified it? He ends up flipping over exactly what you thought he had and you just shook you're head because you knew you could have saved that bet? That's this type of read. Obviously my read could have been off and I wouldn't have posted this hand for comment, had I lost, I would have chalked it up to playing AT UTG. That's also why I posted this shortly after it happened so I could still remember what was going on during the hand, both action wise and in my head.
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Old 11-18-2005, 06:59 AM
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i am just writing this as a reply so i dont forget my mindset

the lower the limit, the bigger the range that the person can bet to value his hand. at .25/.50 a player can cap the turn with top pair, however at a higher limit, a turn cap means at least set usually. this causes for more unknown plays in aggressive pots at the lower limits, because their hand ranges are wider and they do not know how much to bet in relation to their hand, whereas that is common knowledge at the higher limits

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Old 11-18-2005, 10:56 AM
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Fold pre-flop, don't play that trash from early position Trons, you are gonna either win some small pots or lose big ones with it. This case you got quite lucky.

Flop play is good, just a straight out bet, a check-raise probably wouldn't work here since the others wouldn't bet out so, good bet.

Turn, well you have 2-pair I might have just called the 2 bet. Raising is good, you would definately get a bluff to fold here, I really don't like getting the 4th bet back at me though. 2 Pair is good, but there are hands that beat you. I agree it is unlikely that your opponent has AK or KK, although 99 is a definate possibility along with QJ.

River I would bet and call the raise, or check call.

It's pretty hard to be ultra aggressive with this hand, unless you are positive that you had your opponent beat. 2-pair is a good hand, but I will rarely cap or even 3 bet the river with it, since there is alot here that beats you.
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Old 11-18-2005, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trons
Growlers,

I usually play very tight. I am not sure why I played that hand, or how I got that read. My VPiP over all is 19.48 (over 14k hands) at that table it was 18.87. My BB/100 over all is only 1.66 (at .25/.5) but at that table it was 83.40. I took over $22 from that table with 53 hands. The deck was hitting me in the face and when that's happening, I tend to roll with it.

.
Ok, thanks for the explanation, I figured it was an aberration and not your usual play.
UTG in limit holdem, I play 1010 - AA, AK, AQ, AJs, and KQs. I sometimes will play KQo and AJo only if the table is on the passive side. I usually raise with all these hands except KQs and the KQo and AJo when I play them. I would say that if I play a hand UTG or UTG+1 I raise first in 90% of the time. I do this mostly because since I play so few hands UTG I don't want to give away what I have by raising or not raising.
What is your UTG strategy, Trons? Just curious.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:31 PM
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I'm actually a little tighter UTG then that. I'll play AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ and MAYBE KQs. I will always open with a raise from UTG, UTG+1 or MP if folded to me. The only exception to this is if I've been playing super tight for a while, and I raise UTG (or similar position) and everybody folds...several times. At that point, I will loosen up a little and start limping with more marginal hands.

That wasn't the situation in this case. I usually like to have >100 hands at a fairly stable table to justify a decent table image. This case was simply...The deck was hitting me in the face with a hammer and the AT looked decent to limp with. I will say that I had been drinking, but I didn't even have a decent buzz at that point, so I can't blame the booze. I don't post hands I play badly when I'm drunk because I know it was because I was impared.

Before you guys start hammering me for playing while drinking, I will say that I don't do it frequently, and it usually only takes me losing one decent pot because I was playing A high and lose to the 4 flush board...

My usual VPiP per session (going by PS stats) is usually 15-18 outside the blinds.

I appreciate the show of support and I had loosened up for about 2k hands or so a while back. That was an attempt to improve my post flop play. I realized that was a losing idea so I went back to playing tight. At these levels, imo, it's about the only way to be a winner. I had dropped down to less then 1bb/100 before I learned that lesson.
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