Hey,

I had this in one of my bookmarks....tough to memorize (I havent yet), but it sure is helpful.
http://www.pokersourceonline.com/learn/odds.asp

Another is

http://www.homepokergames.com/odds.php

Originally Posted by gder03

im guessing its about 1:20 to make a flush +/- 5. so knowing this, how will this info help you pf? the pot will never give you odds pf, so in my mind its useless info.

To know how much value to give suitors. Its 118:1 according to that link.

Originally Posted by gder03

im guessing its about 1:20 to make a flush +/- 5. so knowing this, how will this info help you pf? the pot will never give you odds pf, so in my mind its useless info.

Making a flush by the river with 2 suited in the pocket is 15:1 pre-flop and you're right few pre-flop pot give you those kind of pot odds. That's why implied odds are so important. In limit Hold'em implied odds are restricted to pre-determined bets with 4 bets per round allowed whereas in NL Hold'em, implied odds are determined by the size of your opps stack!
While getting a flush with 2 suited in the pocket at pre-flop is 15:1, IF you flop 2 of the same suit for a fush draw, the odds go down to 1.9:1 for 2 draws (turn and river) or 4.1:1 for one draw (turn or river). Most flop pots would easily give these pot odds with only 3 players at minimal bets (big blind). It's when raises come into play that the draw vs pot odds start to suffer and why raising to discourage drawing is so important.
So if the 3 players (including the 2 blinds) above came in at minimal investment, there would be 3 bets in the flop pot and if the SB bets the minimal amount, the BB now has 4:1 pot odds to call and if he calls the 3rd player now has 5:1 to call. BUT if the BB raised by one bet, the 3rd player would have pot odds of only 6:2 or 3:1 to call. On the turn the bets double as do the implied odds so a player on the draw can roughly calculate pot size by the number of players still in action and the number of bets they think they can extract if they hit their draw - and of course if it's good enough to win.
In NL Hold'em, a pot size raise is automatically 2:1 for the next player to call but the implied odds are limited only by the size of the opps stack so depending on the hand, any NL player can argue a call based on implied odds if the opps has a big enough stack that he can get into the pot with an all-in bet! The trick is getting the opps to call the all-in and pay off the implied odds!
The math isn't all that tuf but it can get confusing - lol