Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

So, why couldn't the all-in player not demand that the loud mouth fold his hand right then and there? It would increase his chances to win by about 25% with one less hand in the pot and would be the correct poker action - the same as raising to force out a player when you don't have the chips to bet since you are all-in?
'Etiquette' does not trump the 'rules of the game' and talking to influence another player is a violation of both! Besides which "Poker is not a team sport!"
Getting someone eliminated from a tourney may be a lot more difficult and disruptive than getting the guy to fold and forfeit his chips in the pot. Another post from yesterday had a guy not even in the hand, influenced the play by telling an active player that he laid down a K-6 with 2 Ks showing on the flop! That too is collision and the loud mouth should be demanded to cover any loses to the other active player!

This is my understanding of it (no, I'm not a tournament director): It's only collusion if the players talk about it AND they do it. If one player says to another, "Let's check it down" and that player bets, it's not collusion, just a huge breach of etiquette (or however you spell that). Though if anyone knows different, please feel free to correct me here.

Players who have folded and assist another player by telling them what they folded is collusion, and the player who told what they folded should be removed from the tournament or severly penalized. I've never seen something like this done, so for those who know better let me know what the penalty should be.

Its a tough call on what si collusion and what isn't. Words from someone still in a hand can all be b.s. and simply part of the game. Any words from someone not in hand should be punished.


With regards to checking down an all in, it must occur naturally and without dialgue or else its collusion.

Without words, its simply good strategy.

So how would a 10 minute time penalty work here? Would he have to fold his hand?

Originally Posted by bonchkid

If one player offers to check it down, it doesn't matter how the other responds, the first player is out of line.

Removing someone from a tournament due to soemthing like this is laughable, certainly it deserves a penalty, 10 minute time penalty is standard. If its a repeated offense increasing the time penalty sounds good.

Yes, the first player is out of line, but if the second player does not act on it, then it's technically not collusion.

As for removing a player from a tournament for telling someone what they folded when that person is considering calling an all-in bet, I think this is a very serious offense. Imagine you're the player who's all in (on a bluff), and your opponent is going to fold until the "advice" from a player who tells him he folded a king (making it less likely that you have a king here). Now you're on your way to the rail, while the offender only has a 10 minute penalty?

This isn't someone who drops an f-bomb at the table, this is someone who is cheating.

Originally Posted by Jason75

Yes, the first player is out of line, but if the second player does not act on it, then it's technically not collusion.

As for removing a player from a tournament for telling someone what they folded when that person is considering calling an all-in bet, I think this is a very serious offense. Imagine you're the player who's all in (on a bluff), and your opponent is going to fold until the "advice" from a player who tells him he folded a king (making it less likely that you have a king here). Now you're on your way to the rail, while the offender only has a 10 minute penalty?

This isn't someone who drops an f-bomb at the table, this is someone who is cheating.

Which is why I think the punishment should fit the crime. If a player is active in a hand and suggests sometyhing like checking down to another, his hand should be folded whether the other player co-operates or not! If a player not active in the hand brings forward information that could or does influence the action, they should be held accountable for the loss to the injuried active player - if tht means the offending player's entire stack, then all the better!

Rules in a tournament are there to help it run smoothly and can only be 'made' from situations needing attention and from suggestion brought forward from players. Might as well plant the seed here and hope it takes root in the near future.