Pockets vs. Flush draw

**Xone** · 11-10-2005

Hello,

Just need some opinions.

Is it a good play to chase flush?

Today, I had pocket 10's, and the flop comes 8c, 2h, 3h.

Everybody limping, I go all in.
One guy calls with J8, both hearts.

Is it generally good play to call all in with 4 hearts, hoping I hit with turn or river, or is it a textbook play to fold?

In that case, the guy had top pair with decent kicker, also had flush draw so of course he called.

How about when he has a pair and chases flush? Is it considered to be a good play?

Thanks

**danimal** · 11-10-2005

Usually you don't want to call an all-in with just a flush draw. If it is in a tournament you may decide to call depending on your stack compared to the other player that is all-in or just in general you need to calculate the pot odds. If the odds are there you should call but with a player all-in you probably won't have good enough odds.

**Operator** · 11-10-2005

without dollar amounts its hard to say anything about this, since we cant calculate odds or gauge how likely you are to make people fold with your all in etc.

also remember, if you are going to chase a flush, especially one where 4 of the flush suit are going to be on the board, you want it to be as high as possible. if the J8h guy turns a heart for a flush, but another heart falls on the river, his flush is beaten by a single K,Q,A of hearts, exactly the kind of cards that people tend to hold on to.

**Xone** · 11-10-2005

It was $30+3 SnG with 5 people..
Blinds were 10/20, and we both had around 1200 in chips.

**ChieF** · 11-10-2005

What site was this played at?

**Xone** · 11-10-2005

Pokerroom..

**mxp2004** · 11-10-2005

The call here by your opponent appears justified by the pot odds. After the flop, he has top pair plus a flush draw. Thus, he has 13 outs (9 hearts, 2 remaining 8s, and 2 other JavaScript).

With two cards to come, he'll make his hand about 48% of the time, and so the pot needs to lay him only a little better than even money to make this call. Since you stated that there were several limpers in this pot already after the flop, it's likely that he had the required odds.

You might have considered a pot-sized raise on the flop, and then pushed on the turn. A lot of players will call an all-in on the flop with a good draw, but will fold to a big bet on the turn when they have only one more card to make their hand. Note also that the pot odds needed for a player to continue to chase a draw on the turn are doubled, again because the player can expect only 1 more card instead of two. Thus, chances are that a call which is correct on the flop is a huge mistake on the turn.

**PJ of TheGame** · 11-10-2005

Hell, with that hand in that situation, I have to think there's a good chance that my 8's are good lol. All-in on a raggedy flop like that doesn't say "I have a good hand that I'm protecting from a draw" it says "I missed the flop but I'm betting you did too and I want to buy this bad boy".

**traz** · 11-10-2005

Top pair and flush draw...I'd call that 9/10 times in a tournament.

**Keefter** · 11-11-2005

I've had this happen to me. I'm guessing your stack wasn't that bad or you would have gone all in preflop. In an STT I would not go all in with 1010 on that board. In a ring game you are EV+ but in a tourny Ev+ doesn't count for much.

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