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  1. #21
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    I agree with whoever said #2 is the most clear cut.

    #1, apparently I'm the only one thinking I have 10 outs? Like I said I go for the check-raise on the turn.

    #3, Jeez 3 betting 88 from UTG+1 isn't my idea of a good time to isolate but seems to be the general consensus. I like what Marm says about "trying" to give others better odds to come along since you might like the flop 1 time in 5 at the most.
    Read my musings on poker and life at Online Poker Examiner, Poker Examiner, PokerNewsBoy.com, and My Poker Blog

  2. #22
    PokerForums God
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    yeah, you are the only one thinking you have 10 outs.

  3. #23
    Check Raiser
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    Where do you get 10? T's are 4 clean outs, you have two backdoor draws for maybe another 1 1/2... and two undercards to the K on the board, which is probably worth one more out tops.

    If you assume your opponent doesn't have a King, which he may not, then you're in much better shape... but it's a small pot and you have a weak draw that may be VERY weak.
    -You may not know this, but poker is a game of incomplete information.

  4. #24
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    heads up vs a late middle position open raiser I would count the 9 and J as good outs.

    In these situations I pretend the King is not on the board. The raiser is going to bet no matter what he has in this spot.
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  5. #25
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    Couldn't have AJ, KQ, JT ,QJ, KJ?

    I would say they are partial outs, no way you can give them full out strenght.

  6. #26
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    He could also have A3, 9T, AQ, K5s. I have 4 clean outs to a straight, 4 to an open ended straight draw, 10 to a flush draw, and 6 to a pair.

    lets assume that my pair outs are 3, 4 to a gutshot, and 2 for my runners. thats 9 outs plus If he doesn't have a King my check-raise on the turn is going to win this pot, in my mind my check-raise bluff on the turn will have a 30-50% success rate.

    this in my mind is not a small pot 4.5sb pre-flop, 2sb flop, and 1bb on the turn with my check-raise. I'm basically risking 1sb on the flop to win 7.5sb's. These are the pots you need to win in a tight game: taking pots away from possible blind stealers.

    In the actual hand (a 20/40 live game) a 4 came on the turn and I check-raised and he folded. I have played with this guy quite a bit and he said , "your king is good" and flashed me A7. I told him I had K9, hehe.
    Read my musings on poker and life at Online Poker Examiner, Poker Examiner, PokerNewsBoy.com, and My Poker Blog

  7. #27
    Check Raiser
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    Okay Steve-O... not too many of us play 20/40 tight games. Heck, I rarely wind up in a game with less then 40-50% to the flop.

    I stopped check/raising to try and win pots at 1/2 and 2/4 ... I only use it for value nowadays. So I look at the hand as a pure "will you improve to best" problem. Thank you for the lesson in thinking though... I wouldn't even have given that one a second glance.
    -You may not know this, but poker is a game of incomplete information.

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