|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Super Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 5,411
Limits Played: $2-$4 NL
|
|
Hand Example
I'm sorry this isn't a particularly difficult hand but just wanted peoples opinions on whether I was unlucky or played badly here:
Basically I'm in a $10 SNG with blinds at 50/100, 7 players left and I am medium - short staked (770 chips). Should I have raised all in to a UTG limper and and a button reraise (250)?
Exact hand below.
#Game No : 2869346034
***** Hand History for Game 2869346034 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:16504054 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Wednesday, November 02, 09:07:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 35036 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 4: JollyBob85 ( $1675 )
Seat 6: WotaWaster1 ( $770 )
Seat 5: LED_ZEP ( $2585 )
Seat 9: rz499 ( $1310 )
Seat 8: FyrtalAAAA ( $990 )
Seat 10: azdbaum ( $60 )
Seat 1: dainri23 ( $610 )
Trny:16504054 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to WotaWaster1 [ Qc As ]
rz499 calls [100].
azdbaum folds.
dainri23 folds.
JollyBob85 folds.
LED_ZEP raises [300].
WotaWaster1 is all-In [720]
FyrtalAAAA folds.
rz499 calls [670].
LED_ZEP is all-In [2285]
rz499 is all-In [540]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, Td, Th ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
LED_ZEP shows [ Ah, Ks ] two pairs, kings and tens.
WotaWaster1 shows [ Qc, As ] a pair of tens.
rz499 shows [ Ad, Js ] a pair of tens.
|
| Sponsored Links |
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
River Rat
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 264
|
|
Personally I would have folded and waited for a better spot. There are still seven left, there are some with a lot less chips than you, I would wait a bit before I started trying moves like this. Unless the button was raising everytime with any crap. But even so, it's not worth getting involved with AQ off out of position, just wait for a few more people to get knocked out and moves like this will work. Plus the blinds will probably be up another level by then, making it even more worth it.
AQ is a really crap hand, I read somewhere the best you'll ever be is about 50-50...and that's against another AQ! If we were down to four or five in an SNG, with the blinds higher, then I might get aggressive and make a move with it, otherwise it's a fold in my opinion.
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Poker Professional
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,732
|
|
But that's the point. When you're short stacked you WANT a 50/50 shot to double up, plus the chance of taking the pot right there. If not for re-raise in front, this is an easy push.
I see this as a tough call - if the 2nd guy hadn't raise you might have a chance of taking the pot down with an all-in. With the re-raise, though, you know he's not folding for an extra 420. With a re-riase like that, you almost have to put him on a big pair or something like AK. Unless the guy is a maniac, about the only hand he's likely to have that you even have an even-money shot at taking down is JJ. AA, KK, QQ, or AK has you in big trouble. All things considered, I think a reluctant fold is best there.
__________________
I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,264
Limits Played: $1-$2 NL
|
|
Personally I woudnt want to move all in with a gutshot and have the chance that Im already drawing dead to a K/10.
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Poker Professional
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,732
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChieF
Personally I woudnt want to move all in with a gutshot and have the chance that Im already drawing dead to a K/10.
|
All the betting was pre-flop.
__________________
I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.
|

11-02-2005
|
|
PokerForums God
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,172
|
|
I think I play it the same way.
These tourney's suck when they are this tight.
But since the table was so tight, maybe folding was correct since there was a limp and a raise.
But given all considerations, I think I take a slightly -EV push here, you may even pick up the pot.
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Poker Hustler
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,230
|
|
I think you have a 100% expectation that you're getting called here by pushing in only 420 more after a 300 raise. At this point I'd be thinking that I'm probably about a coinflip to win the hand, but probably worse.
I'm a big fan of pushing when you have to with what you have, but I usually like to have a chance to win the pot uncontested. If you quickly figure the pot odds you're giving your opponents:
1270 in the pot, 420 to call for 3:1 pott odds.
Even someone who doesn't understand pot odds isn't going to turn this down (they only have to be 25% to win for a call here to be break even). So what do our opponents likely have? UTG probably has a weaker hand, but the button raises facing an EP call. Not knowing the player at all I assume they're tight - I'd put them on AK, AA-TT. If they're loose-aggressive, I throw in 99, 88, AQ (but we already have a queen, so this is much less likely) AJ, AT, maybe KQ.
I'm not going to criticize anyone who goes all in here, but I think considering the situation and our chipstack, I fold (which may in itself turn out to be incorrect if I can't pick up a more favorable situation later).
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Check Raiser
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: High River, Alberta
Posts: 739
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jiffman
But even so, it's not worth getting involved with AQ off out of position,
AQ is a really crap hand,
|
Once WotaWaster went all-in, his position becomes a mute point. He no longer has to act first or at all and he is now a spectator - as were the other two. One of the favourable aruements of going all-in pre-flop is that removes the disadvantage of postion (since you no longer have decisions to make) as well as implied odds (since once all-in there are none).
' AQ is a really crap hand,' Let's see what Poker Stove says:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 23.4785 % 22.13% 01.34% { AcQh }
Hand 2: 55.6083 % 54.26% 01.34% { AdKh }
Hand 3: 20.9132 % 19.57% 01.34% { AsJc }
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 46.4737 % 45.85% 00.62% { AcQh }
Hand 2: 28.0319 % 27.42% 00.61% { random }
Hand 3: 25.4944 % 24.40% 01.09% { random }
I'll take that crap as often as I can get it!
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
River Rat
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 264
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s
Once WotaWaster went all-in, his position becomes a mute point.
' AQ is a really crap hand,' Let's see what Poker Stove says:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 23.4785 % 22.13% 01.34% { AcQh }
Hand 2: 55.6083 % 54.26% 01.34% { AdKh }
Hand 3: 20.9132 % 19.57% 01.34% { AsJc }
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 46.4737 % 45.85% 00.62% { AcQh }
Hand 2: 28.0319 % 27.42% 00.61% { random }
Hand 3: 25.4944 % 24.40% 01.09% { random }
I'll take that crap as often as I can get it!
|
Ah, I didn't think of the position like that....good point!
But as for AQ, when I said a 'crap hand' I suppose I really meant in that situation originally posted, IMO it's crap. I really try not to play a hand in SNG's until there are only 4 or 5 players left and the blinds are say 75/150 or 100/200. Then I start getting REALLY aggressive, plus I have the image of the tightest player in the universe. You'd be surprised how much it confuses (and scares) the hell out of ppl! So in this situation, with seven at the table, a limp and a button raise before me, I would fold and look for a better situation.
IMO AQ is crap in this situation, if you think about the sort of hands players might raise on the button:
AA vs AQ: 92% to 8%
KK vs AQ: 72% to 29%
AK vs AQ: 72% to 24%
QQ vs AQ: 70% to 30%
JJ vs AQ: 58% to 43%
TT vs AQ: 58% to 43%
AQs vs AQ: 57% to 43%
AQ vs AQ 50% to 50%
All low pockets 22-99 vs AQ: 53% to 45% approx
So as you can see, your best bet is against another AQ and even then it's 50/50!!
I would fold here cos if you're up against a tight player he's gonna have one of the hands above...your chances of survival are a coin toss at best.
Last edited by Jiffman; 11-02-2005 at 11:11 AM.
|

11-02-2005
|
 |
Poker Professional
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,732
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s
Once WotaWaster went all-in, his position becomes a mute point.
|
No it doesn't, it becomes a MOOT point. (Sorry, pet peeve off).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jiffman
But as for AQ, when I said a 'crap hand' I suppose I really meant in that situation originally posted, IMO it's crap. I really try not to play a hand in SNG's until there are only 4 or 5 players left and the blinds are say 75/150 or 100/200. Then I start getting REALLY aggressive, plus I have the image of the tightest player in the universe. You'd be surprised how much it confuses (and scares) the hell out of ppl!
|
In general, I agree, but given the situation as presented here (less than 8 BB) I don't think AQ is a "crap" hand - it's a hand I look to get all my money in and hope to have a coin flip to double up. In this case, however, the re-raise is what may well keep me from playing it. If all I had in front of me was the limp and original raise, I'd push in a heartbeat.
__________________
I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:26 PM.
|
 |
|