How would you have played it?

**Smallwoosy** · 10-23-2005

Just interested to cast some discussion on this...
Just entered a big entrance fee mtt, the largest i've played, so was preparing to play quite tight. It was a no-limit freezeout. Wasn't getting many hands so in level 2 decided to open a pot in middle position, perhaps slightly loosely, with A8 of spades with a raise of 4 times the big blind. Small blind and big blind both call.

The flop was JavaScript 8h 4s

Now, as far as i was concerned this was fantastic. With a pair and the nut flush draw i was favourite against most hands. Normally i would be prepared to put all my money in on this flop if opportunity presented itself, but i was playing slightly cautiously as aforementioned. I had decided that i needed to try playing tighter than usual..

So, the small blind led out with a bet of half the pot. The blind blind called. I figured one of these had a jack, and didnt want to risk my whole tournament. So i flat called. The turn was the kh.

On the turn the small blind and the big blind checked to me. I decided this was a good time for a semi-bluff so bet 3/4 of the pot. The small blind min raises me and the big blind folds.

Again, as far as i am concerned i need to hit a card and it seems that the small blind will not be pushed of his hand by a reraise, so i flat call.

The river is a relatively innocuous 7c- the only feasible hand this could help is 109. At this stage me and the small blind both have around 500 chips left. SB bet 200. This is a very small bet into a very large pot. Although i figure i am beat i call- partly due to the odds, incase he was by any chance on a busted draw, and partly because i want to see what hand beat me (i know..i need to get out of that habit!)

Well.....SB turns over 56, and i almost fall out of my chair.. My pet peeve is a gutshot losing me basically all my chips..

My question is should i have raised the flop? the turn? My reasoning seemed sound at the time, but i wouldve succeeded in then winning the pot. However, on second thoughts when the majority of times the gut shot doesnt hit i will win a bigger pot..as he may well make a similar bet on the river which i, with similar reasoning will call..

Sorry this is such a long post..i am just steaming a bit from the lack of success at my first major tournament! Incidentally i continued to watch for a while and as i post this the SB is winning the tourney...

Thanks for any help!

**Irexes** · 10-23-2005

A reraise on the flop would be the gutsy play, but the call also seems reasonable.

However the turn is either a reraise allin or a fold. The call is really weak and compounded by the call on the river.

Doesn't really matter that he was chasing, you let him dictate the hand and the betting.

**traz** · 10-23-2005

Originally Posted by Smallwoosy

The flop was JavaScript 8h 4s

The blind blind called. I figured one of these had a jack, and didnt want to risk my whole tournament. So i flat called.

I would have pushed, since it was a tournament. In a cash game I might call, but if you don't want to risk all your chips, chances are this guy doesn't either. So I come over the top.

Again, as far as i am concerned i need to hit a card and it seems that the small blind will not be pushed of his hand by a reraise, so i flat call.

Well.....SB turns over 56, and i almost fall out of my chair.. My pet peeve is a gutshot losing me basically all my chips..

SB was definitely not justified in making the calls he did. But you weren't either (because of your reasoning). Like you said, you knew you were behind, and you were calling to hit. You didn't have the odds to justify that, therefore your play was incorrect as well.

This hand had to be won by raising. If you're not raising, you shouldn't be in this hand, because your odds aren't good enough to call.

**Smallwoosy** · 10-25-2005

Thanks for your advice, which seems helpful.

However, i disagree that i do not have the required odds to call. Since i have a pair and a flush draw i am even money to improve by the river and therefore surely can call any bet?

**Jason75** · 10-25-2005

Originally Posted by Smallwoosy

Thanks for your advice, which seems helpful.

However, i disagree that i do not have the required odds to call. Since i have a pair and a flush draw i am even money to improve by the river and therefore surely can call any bet?

The Flop:
So the pot is 12BB on the flop. SB bets 6BB, BB calls 6BB, so there's 24BB in the pot and it's 6BB to call or 4:1 odds.

If we figure that your opponent does not have a set, then you have 14 outs (9 spades, 2 8's, and 3 aces) and are about 30% or 2.3:1 hit your hand on the turn. So yes, you have the odds on the flop to call.

The Turn:
The pot is now 30BB, you bet about 22 BB, the SB raises to 44B, so there's now 96BB in the pot and it's 22 BB to call or 4.4:1. You're still 30% or 2.3:1 to hit your hand on the river, so yes again you are more than getting your odds.

Even if our opponent had a set, we've still got 8 outs (the 8s pairs the board for a potential FH) for an 18% chance or 4.5:1 to win on the flop, so we're not getting our expressed odds, but I think our implied odds make up for it here. On the turn, we'd have 7 outs (we just lost the king of spades because it also now would pair the board for a FH) so we're 16% to win or about 5.5:1, but again I think we have implied odds to justify the call (I think, since you didn't give your stack sizes).

Personally, I'd cut my non flush outs in half (to 2 here) in this situation against both a better and a caller so I'd figure on 11 outs.

That's just the odds, I still would have raised with this hand on the flop to take the pot down right there. YOu've got to use the power of position against your opponents when you have it.

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