Should I have moved to chase him out sooner?

**Yvraine** · 10-23-2005

More adventures with little pairs:

***** Hand History for Game 2919230890 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, October 23, 11:27:54 EDT 2005
Table Table 65847 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: sideout29 ( $26.80 )
Seat 8: gferi ( $17.80 )
Seat 3: SUPERBOB53 ( $24.30 )
Seat 7: qbert19 ( $39.15 )
Seat 9: Yvraine ( $13.75 )
Seat 4: kjl21 ( $37.15 )
Seat 1: wurmdoktor ( $24.65 )
Seat 6: maestrochico ( $23.05 )
Seat 2: Dumass23 ( $36.65 )
Seat 10: Ldti76stj9 ( $4.15 )
wurmdoktor posts small blind [$0.10].
Dumass23 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Yvraine [

]
SUPERBOB53 calls [$0.25].
kjl21 folds.
sideout29 folds.
maestrochico folds.
qbert19 folds.
gferi folds.
Yvraine calls [$0.25].
Ldti76stj9 folds.
wurmdoktor folds.
Dumass23 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
Dumass23 checks.
SUPERBOB53 checks.
Yvraine bets [$0.25].
Dumass23 folds.
SUPERBOB53 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
SUPERBOB53 checks.
Yvraine bets [$0.25].
SUPERBOB53 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing River ** [

]
SUPERBOB53 bets [$3].
Yvraine calls [$3].
SUPERBOB53 shows [

,

] a straight, three to seven.
Yvraine doesn't show [

,

] three of a kind, threes.
SUPERBOB53 wins $7.50 from the main pot with a straight, three to seven.

Pokertracker was reading him as Tight Passive Passive, so once I flopped my set, my main concern was not to bet so much that I scared him away from giving me more chips. As it turns out, I would have been better off if I have denied him the opportunity to draw out on me. (Too results oriented?)

I suppose I should have folded to the river bet, right? I sometimes get too stubborn.

Thoughts?

**Aces-o-8s** · 10-23-2005

Originally Posted by Yvraine

More adventures with little pairs:
Pokertracker was reading him as Tight Passive Passive, so once I flopped my set, my main concern was not to bet so much that I scared him away from giving me more chips. As it turns out, I would have been better off if I have denied him the opportunity to draw out on me. (Too results oriented?)

I suppose I should have folded to the river bet, right? I sometimes get too stubborn.

Thoughts?

First thought that comes to mind is with the str8 already possible on the turn, that was the time to fish or cut bait. Betting the pot would have removed his pot odds and calling @ 3-1would have been a mistake (8 out for the OESD = 4.7-1). If the str8 were already made, I doubt he would have checked into you, so you had just this opportunity to win it right there or risk a drawout on the river.

Second thought is that pocket pairs will miss the set on the flop 88% of the time but when they do hit, they go on to win 83% of the time so it's easy for someone to want to slowplay. BUT you still have to watch the board for a draw out. In the case of pocket pairs getting set on the flop, I find it usually unnecessary and unprofitable to get too cute with a slow play when the set is hidden - i.e. the board looks fairly harmless vs a set with a pair on the board. Most will think about a set but most usually put you on to a pair. By betting 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot on the flop you would have built it up enough to try for a win on the turn if a draw out look possible - then bet the pot - or if the turn drew a blank, then a 1/2 pot bet should keep a drawing hand in play.

Last thought, with 4 to str8 on board and a bet 12 times the last bet by a TPP, yeah I think I would have accepted that I was probably beat and fold - although it sure would be a good card to bluff on wouldn't it?

**Marm** · 10-23-2005

MINIMUM BETS??? MINIMUM BETS?????

WTF???

sigh....

You should ALWAYS be offering incorrect odds to draw, regardless of your hand. Usually a 3/4ish pot size bet will do, That way they will make the mistakes. In this case, he played the hand correctly, you made the mistakes.

**Marm** · 10-23-2005

Using BHC (BisonBison's Hand Converter)

**Yvraine** · 10-23-2005

Originally Posted by Marm

Using BHC (BisonBison's Hand Converter)

Uh oh, I think Marm's losing his patience with us. This must the the third thread just today where's he's made the exact same post.

I can't get Bison to convert my hands right. It keeps leaving out information that I think I'm telling it to include. And, it keeps changing the checkboxes after it does a conversion.

I'll try to screw with it some more and see if I can get it to work. I promise!

As far as the minbets go, I was thinking of the Fundamental Theorem of Poker, and since I figured I had the better hand, I wanted him to call and make a mistake by calling. If I denied him the odds to call, he'd be right to fold, and that'd be the correct play for him per the FToP. So I didn't want to do that.

Does that make sense?

**FelixTheCat** · 10-23-2005

Bet at least $.50 on the flop and 3/4 pot on the turn. Try to take the pot on the turn to avoid getting drawn out on.

**Marm** · 10-23-2005

Originally Posted by Yvraine

Uh oh, I think Marm's losing his patience with us. This must the the third thread just today where's he's made the exact same post.

I can't get Bison to convert my hands right. It keeps leaving out information that I think I'm telling it to include. And, it keeps changing the checkboxes after it does a conversion.

I'll try to screw with it some more and see if I can get it to work. I promise!

Bingo....

If it doesnt work, it doesnt work, but most people aren't even trying.... Its a damn sticky, shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

As far as the minbets go, I was thinking of the Fundamental Theorem of Poker, and since I figured I had the better hand, I wanted him to call and make a mistake by calling. If I denied him the odds to call, he'd be right to fold, and that'd be the correct play for him per the FToP. So I didn't want to do that.

Does that make sense?

Ok, you FUBAR'd the FToP pretty hardcore there.

THe FToP says (paraphrasing) that if you could see each others cards, would you have played it any differently? His answer would be a no, so he was correct FToP wise, you would be a huge yes, and therefore you made the mistake. When you saw that str8 draw come on the turn, and saw that he had a draw, you would be betting more than the minimum, giving slightly incorrect odds to call.

If you had bet enough to not give him correct odds to call, than he would have been making the mistake by calling. The FToP doesnt care who has the better hand, it just says would you have played it differently. He played it spot on by making those calls.

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