3rd hand of a MTT would u go all in?

**Jiffman** · 10-20-2005

This was a $5 MTT on Poker Room that I played last night. It's the third hand and I've barely sat down with me tea and lit a smoke! I thought for ages about this, I really wanted to call!

$5+$1 (real money), hand #1,378,422,883
5+0.5 NL Holdem Multi Table Tournament, 19 Oct 2005 07:49 PM

Seat 1: Punko ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 2: matador12ku ($1,540 in chips)
Seat 3: cityhall ($1,280 in chips)
Seat 4: Lenin ($1,760 in chips)
Seat 6: spillup24 ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 7: jiffman [4D,6H] ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 8: J Two Pair ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 9: POWER69 ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 10: Jonnyboy xx ($1,500 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
spillup24 posts blind ($10), jiffman posts blind ($20).

PRE-FLOP
J Two Pair folds, POWER69 folds, Jonnyboy xx folds, Punko folds, matador12ku folds, cityhall folds, Lenin folds, spillup24 calls $10, jiffman checks.

FLOP [board cards

]
spillup24 bets $20, jiffman calls $20.

TURN [board cards

]
spillup24 bets $40, jiffman bets $100, spillup24 bets $1,400 and is all-in, jiffman folds.

SHOWDOWN
spillup24 wins $1,620.

In the end I folded cos these are the sort of calls I'm trying to be more disciplined with - I love to gamble and stick all the chips in and flip the cards over! But something inside me was screaming I had him beat.

What should I have done? I thought about raising pre-flop, but surely it was too early to be stealing with 6-4 off. I thought about folding on the flop, but his min bet tempted me to see the next card. Maybe I should have folded on the turn, but I had a feeling I was winning.

Later I ran Pokerstove and it said I was 83% against any two random cards. Does this mean it was really bad play to fold here?

This has bothered me all night, cos I could have doubled up early and been in a good position (on Saturday I almost tripled up on the second hand in the same $5 MTT, and went on to finish 6th) instead last night I ended up finishing 78th or something, which pays exactly the same as if I'd had a gamble on the 3rd hand and busted in 300th place.....

**gder03** · 10-20-2005

I believe you were beat aswell.

Depends on blind structure weather to call or fold. if this is a bad structured tourny with 2.5min-5minute blinds easy call. however if blinds 10+ minutes u shouldnt call.

3rd hand in MTT u cant tell what kind of player he is.

going from 40$ to $1.4k is always a play thats confused me. maybe the fool was playing AK slow. good fold imho

**xxdemexx** · 10-20-2005

this is a call - he's got a king with a strongish kicker. This is 5+1 land - he could very well have KJ. The 6 is unlikley to have helped him (because you have a 6!). This might even be a flush bluff with an overcard or with K hearts...

You have to survive 5 or 6 all-ins in a MTT to get a position - it may be early on - but this is as good an all-in call as you're likely to get...

**NoManner** · 10-20-2005

I'd definitely call here. The guy could very likely flip up AQo. You want to get yourself in good position to make FT. Double up or just go find a new tournament. Always better to bust in the first 5 mins than to get all the way to blinded out on bubble.

**Jiffman** · 10-20-2005

I guess that's the answer really - bust out in five minutes and find another tourney, or put yourself in a great position to start building a serious stack. Either is better than what I actually did - folded and ended up going out with a wimper in a pathetic 78th. Which really was a waste of most the evening!

But you have to survive 5 or 6 all-ins to win a MTT? That's interesting. I read somewhere it was 2 or 3, and at least one of those will be an AK coinflip. I've made a few final tables and I'm sure I didn't take as many as 5 or 6 all-ins, but then I've never got to the final table with a massive stack, and I've never won an MTT (did come second once tho!). Does that mean to really have a crack at winning, I have to go all-in a lot more?

**Irexes** · 10-20-2005

I think 5 or 6 is about right.

Hopefully that breaks down to something like;

- a couple of coinflips
- a couple where you have the nuts
- one where you suck out
- and one total bluff where you pray the other guy folds

**traz** · 10-20-2005

call...as others have said, he probably has a king. if he's lucky enough to hit some junk 2-pair (like yourself heh) or a set, then I would pay him off

Let me ask you this. If you called the bet on the flop, what were you hoping to hit on the turn? Another 4?

**Beavis68** · 10-20-2005

Great point Traz.

Of course, with two pair like this, you would prefer to be setting him all-in, not calling his all-in in such a small pot.

**Jason75** · 10-20-2005

On the flop, just fold this crap hand - you missed hitting the jackpot and in the long run it's not worth $20 to peel one off. But that's not what you asked.

If this is the WSOP Main event, fold the crap out of this hand. If this is a $5 internet tourney, call every day and twice on sunday, and hope he didn't have a 52, K3, K4, K6. Could just as easily be a semi-bluff at the OESD or flush draw (or both).

Also, your $60 raise on the turn seems like a bluff attempt and invites the all-in. Raise something significant next time, like 2-3x the pot or just go all in yourself. 2 middle pair is a good hand, but very vulnerable.

**Jason75** · 10-20-2005

Why does everyone think the SB had such a strong hand like KJ or AQ? He just completed the SB.

Don't we think he'd raise with a strong hand? I'd raise with any king, ace, or queen down to about Q7 about 80% of the time in the SB to find out where I am at. I really think this is a semi bluff at an OESD or flush draw myself. Very common play in a tourney.

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