Two hand questions

**AcesoverQueens.com** · 10-19-2005

Ok, In a cash game what would you do?
(you arent chip leader but close)
1. A-J off in early position
2. K-q Suited early postion

Tournament (Middle of the pac chips wise)
1. A-J off in early position
2. K-q Suited early postion

**puddlejumper** · 10-19-2005

fold, fold, fold, fold?

**Jason75** · 10-19-2005

I don't know about the cash games.

For the tourneys, you mentioned in another post you've read Harrington on Hold'em. Without any specific details, my "default" settings are to do exactly what he recommends there. At a tough table fold both in EP. At a regular table, play both with a mixture of 50% calls and 50% raises (2-5x bb).

Personally, I throw the AJo away a lot faster than the KQs, just because it's dominated by more hands (both are dominated by AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, but AJ is also dominated by JJ, where as KQ is not, although it is an underdog to any ace) and there's no flush payoff potential (doesn't happen often, but when it does you can win a jackpot). I find I lose less money by playing non-dominated but weaker hands (like KQs) than I do when I'm dominated and catch a piece of the flop (god help you if you have AJ and flop an ace against AK or AQ). When a king flops, I'm only dominated by AK, and when a Q flops I'm only dominated by AQ.

But that's just me.

**AcesoverQueens.com** · 10-19-2005

Haha that's why I asked, wanted to see other opinion and compare to Dan's. I would hold on to the kq suited if the table was tight, but the AJ would be gone IMO

Originally Posted by Jason75

I don't know about the cash games.

For the tourneys, you mentioned in another post you've read Harrington on Hold'em. Without any specific details, my "default" settings are to do exactly what he recommends there. At a tough table fold both in EP. At a regular table, play both with a mixture of 50% calls and 50% raises (2-5x bb).

Personally, I throw the AJo away a lot faster than the KQs, just because it's dominated by more hands (both are dominated by AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, but AJ is also dominated by JJ, where as KQ is not, although it is an underdog to any ace) and there's no flush payoff potential (doesn't happen often, but when it does you can win a jackpot). I find I lose less money by playing non-dominated but weaker hands (like KQs) than I do when I'm dominated and catch a piece of the flop (god help you if you have AJ and flop an ace against AK or AQ). When a king flops, I'm only dominated by AK, and when a Q flops I'm only dominated by AQ.

But that's just me.

**Trons** · 10-19-2005

Am I the only one who will play either of these hands...with a raise from EP? The raise is to get people to fold hands that may draw out on you.

With both hands you are dominated by several hands, but what are the odds that they're going to be out there? I can't seem to get pokerstove to give me the odds of either hand against 8 other random hands, but I'm guessing, since you're in EP random hands are expected from the rest of the table, that you're a favorite in the long run. Can anybody else run the numbers?

**Marm** · 10-19-2005

Cash:

Really vague question, is this limit or NL< and why do we care if were almost the CL inn a cash game?

Is this the 20/40 at the ChesterField or .05/.10 stars?

All i know is that my answers will not be call.

Tourny:

Again, poker is such a situational game, WE NEED DETAILS.

This time I know my answer will least likely to be Fold.

**Jason75** · 10-19-2005

Originally Posted by Trons

With both hands you are dominated by several hands, but what are the odds that they're going to be out there?

It isn't so much the odds that any single time they will be out there, but the odds that you'll lose a huge pot the times they are out there and you catch top pair. That's why these hands improve in value in unopened pots for every position you move up - there's just that many fewer hands to contain a hand that dominates you.

At best, these are the most marginal value hands to open with a raise in EP - though I will open with suited connectors down to 89 in EP with a limp or with a raise (about 10%) of the time in EP as a semi-bluff. But again, these are marginal plays.

**Trons** · 10-20-2005

Originally Posted by Jason75

It isn't so much the odds that any single time they will be out there, but the odds that you'll lose a huge pot the times they are out there and you catch top pair. That's why these hands improve in value in unopened pots for every position you move up - there's just that many fewer hands to contain a hand that dominates you.

At best, these are the most marginal value hands to open with a raise in EP - though I will open with suited connectors down to 89 in EP with a limp or with a raise (about 10%) of the time in EP as a semi-bluff. But again, these are marginal plays.

I tend to raise with AJo unless there are already 2 or more limpers. I jst checked my PT stats on it and it's my 8th most profitable hand. Thing I like about AJ is out of the hands that have you dominated, most people will reraise with them (except possibly AQ, QQ and JJ) so you can usually get a decent idea if there out there. This boils down to who ends up in the hand with you. I will play much more carefully if the table rock decides to limp/call or cold call a raise from me.

Checking on KQs, I'm a marginal winner with this hand. Suggesting that I may be playing it to agressively. I looked down at the HHs for it and most of the losses were folded on the flop. Maybe I should look at how I'm playing this hand and try to find a way to minimize those times when I do play it to increase my chances of winning.

**Go Fish** · 10-20-2005

I'm having a hard time understanding the concept of playing a hand differently in EP than MP or LP.

KQs is the same hand whether you are sitting UtG or if you are in the blinds. It has the same chance "odds" of being a winning hand.

If you raise from EP, then you have a chance of chasing people out of the pot, thus increasing your chances of winning. On the other hand, from LP, I've found that if I raise then I rarely chase out anyone who has already called(at least in limit).

So what makes KQs a better hand in late play than in early?

**ChieF** · 10-20-2005

Originally Posted by Go Fish

I'm having a hard time understanding the concept of playing a hand differently in EP than MP or LP.

KQs is the same hand whether you are sitting UtG or if you are in the blinds. It has the same chance "odds" of being a winning hand.

If you raise from EP, then you have a chance of chasing people out of the pot, thus increasing your chances of winning. On the other hand, from LP, I've found that if I raise then I rarely chase out anyone who has already called(at least in limit).

So what makes KQs a better hand in late play than in early?

Less Likly that you will be dominated by another hand

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