I must have played over ten hours yesterday and lost 2/3 of my bankroll to loose/passive/sandbagging/call stations – seemingly with more money than brains! I kept reminding myself that pros say these guys make you money and that they lose more than they win – BS! I’m burning all my poker books and DVDs!
There wasn’t a quality hand that couldn’t be beat with absolute rags - I’m talking Q-3o from Mid1, 5-6o from Early2, 3-4s from UTG and on and on and on! I couldn’t catch a flush if it was the flu but there wasn’t two pair in my hand that couldn’t get crushed by 7-2s/9-4s/J-3s/etc! Sandbaggers! I had pocket aces limp in twice at the same table then pocket Kings at another. The pocket Kings limped in from mid pos while I pf raised from CO pos with A-Ko; the flop came Kh-8s-3s. All the way to sd, the mid pos check-called while I laid in as hard as I could making sure any pocket spades paid as dearly as possible chasing the flush and no help from the bushwhacker - who didn’t even check-raise his set on the river!
Admittedly, I went on tilt a few times. I started playing Jackal style (with moderate to good hands) and actually started getting some wins although I had to move often as after a while the table would start to empty as I beat the hell out of every hand I got into. One guy asks “don’t you have a call button?” I answered ‘you want to play rags at me – it comes at a cost!” Pretty soon no-one wanted to play me and I would have to move. I didn’t make much playing this way but lost less often. Worse of all, I wasn’t enjoying the games by playing what I consider poor poker – I like to bust Jackals but hate playing like one!
There has to be a better way of neutralizing overly loose-passive players. Anybody care to share their secret weapons?

Originally Posted by Marm

Yes, the law of large numbers.

The more hands you play against them using optimum (or at least good) strategy, the more money you make. And must keep with this strategy at all times. BAsically, stick to a very TAA mode, know they're betting/calling patterns, and value bet your ass off.

But losing 2/3 of your BR is what bothers me. ANy time you drop below a threshold (about 1500-2000 bb for NL or 150-200 bb), you need to drop down in limits. And when you go on tilt, you need to de-tilt immediately, in your case, I'd recommend a walk around the block.

I don't think TAA is my problem - I general play too tight when things are not going my way and only loosen up if the table starts to tighten up - not a problem lately. I regularily fold any ace with less than 9 kicker and some times that too if UTG. Other than going in with a drawing hand (A-x or K-x suited or J-To/s) I most usually pf raise (or re-r if given the chance) and bet aggressively if the flop fits. I do not chase runner-runners or sets on the turn/river. My stats show I play about 33% or less including blinds.

The 'value bet your ass off' is what I did with the modified Jackal style (moderate to good quality hands) - problem is this gets very readable and the tables just stops playing you. I'm thinking there is really not much you can do with overly loose-calling stations. They win way more than they should and give good poker strategy a bad rep. Knowing that the stats say I'm 97% chance to win is of little consilation when that 3% chance is beating me over the head hand after hand after hand! I wasn't losing with garbage hands but against them! I think maybe I'll have to start playing PL and NL where a pf raise can really hurt these kind of players!

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

I regularily fold any ace with less than 9 kicker and some times that too if UTG. Other than going in with a drawing hand (A-x or K-x suited or J-To/s) I most usually pf raise (or re-r if given the chance) and bet aggressively if the flop fits. I do not chase runner-runners or sets on the turn/river. My stats show I play about 33% or less including blinds.

Here's the evidence,

-Thinking that sometimes folding A9 utg is a sign of tightness
-Kxs
-33% VPIP

Marm is right about the big numbers, but you my friend are loose.

Originally Posted by Irexes

Here's the evidence,

-Thinking that sometimes folding A9 utg is a sign of tightness
-Kxs
-33% VPIP

Marm is right about the big numbers, but you my friend are loose.

If my play is loose - then the rest of the table has severe diarrhea! I play A-x and K-x suited (1st and 2nd nut flush) specifically to loosen up my play - if the flop doesn't give me a flush draw I get ready to dump - and to help mix-up my image and betting patterns so to be less predicable. 9 kicker to the ace has 9/12 of deck covered - that may be slightly loose but hardly a manaic in the making! I'm up against guys who play 2-3u from UTG+1 (raymen23 - PokerStars/table Friederike about 1:30am MST Oct/16 - look it up) and win! I'll find it and post it if you have doubts!

33% VPIP - I assume is percentage of hands that see the flop. (what does VPIP stand for anyway?) Considering the blinds account for 20% of hands at a full ring table I find it hard to believe 33% = loose. What is the % for a TAA (which I believe is shorhand for Tight-Ag(pf)-Ag(af)). The goose-loose players I am getting mugged by are playing 95%+ VPIP - what would that be discribed as if 33% is considered 'loose'?
Anyway if getting my TPTK (as in A-K, A-Q,A-J, K-Q, K-J) constantly getting picked off by TP and a 2nd pair of 3s is playing loose - so be it, I'm loose! And if your tighter, you must be as readable as a grade one text - large print and all!

VPIP is voluntarily put in pot. The % of hands that you put money in. Not quite the same as flops seen though, so you may not have 33% VPIP.

A9o is garbage in most circumstances because Axx on the flop is going to bite you on the ass and you're going to win small pots and lose big ones.

But if you don't want criticism, just say so