Thats why in these situations I like to push it all in if I feel like they are on the draw. I like to make them decide whether a draw is worth putting all their chips on the line, and possibly being eliminated. It tends to make them think twice about going with a draw. I would say that the majority of the time I have been in this position I have been able to force the person to fold because they are simply not ready to be eliminated yet. If you only put in pot size bets and dont make them go all in, it seems like people tend to think "well, if I call I will still have some chips left". Make them pay everything to draw on you.

Ive made some of these same arguments on this forum. Certain PPL have told me that I was wrong for thinking like this. Then after I questioned their response, I was ignored and never answered.


But anyways....

I agree with you guys... make them pay alot to hit their draws. It sucks, in a tournament, when you get crippled by someone hitting their draw. Especially when the person was getting nowhere near the right odds to call.

Originally Posted by triple-t

Specifically, I'm talking about Low buy-in NL MTT ($1, $3, $5, etc). You have a made hand but there is a draw staring you down. I know the advice on this is to make them pay to draw, but in these tourneys, they will pay almost ANY price to draw to their flush or straight. I've even seen some call an all-in bet with nothing but the draw.

So my point is... They are going to hit their flush draw about every third time (If they have it on the flop). This situation is going to come up more than that in the course of a tournament. When it does and they don't hit, you take a bunch of chips. When they do hit (And they will about 34% of the time), it can cripple your stack. How do you handle this situation?

I think 2 things about this. 1) I think we get into trouble when we start thinking poker is about winning pots. and 2) I think we get ourselves into trouble when we think just because we have the best hand now we have the "right to win", and that the drawers are cheating us.

I think it's easy to forget that poker is statistical betting, and as with any statistical situation we will lose some % of the time. What we try and focus on is how to always get the best of it, not how to win pots. I think that the thinking above can really lead to a very sneaky type of tilt that can really impact our mental state (did mine for a long time), so I really want to point this out (how much we underestimate our state of mind in poker, when to me it seems like it's one of the most critical elements).

That being said, I think there is a legitimate question here. Here's my approach:

Early on in a tourney, I try and invite these mistakes by just making bets of 60% or more of the pot to give my opponents the worst of it. I beg them for these calls, because they build my stack when the pots are small enough to get away from.

Late in the tourney, when every pot I'm in is live or die, I'm going to put them to the test for all their chips, always using pressure tactics to get them to make a mistake. When they fold, I'll win. When they call and my hand holds up I'll win. And when they call and draw out, such is life. And if, right after I win the lottery, I get hit by a car, such is also life.

Originally Posted by triple-t

It happened again today. Got busted out of a tournament by a straight draw, but the circumstances don't warrant adding to this thread. As I mentioned before, I'm a believer in making them pay to draw. I'm just wondering how one can feel good about doing the right thing when every time (And I mean every time), they are sitting on the rail having been busted out by someone who drew without the odds. It's not about winning the pots, it's about survival in the tournament.

I'm thinking a couple things here:

1) Are you playing too many hands early on? The relative hand value in the early going is fairly low for anything other than the big pairs. I consider unsuited aces pretty much unplayable (yes, I'd rather play A2h than AKo). Speculative hands go way up in value, though.

2) I agree with making them pay, but are you making the pots too big (raising too much PF and making too big a bet on 3rd, 4th, & 5th streets) in the early going? I think it's important to balance making them pay with reducing the volatility of the hand in the early going by calling more than raising and making bets of just around 50-75% of the pot. One of the reasons we raise is to reduce the field. In the early going of these low buy in MTT's, that's often not possible, so in those cases we shouldn't raise as often with medium strength hands (just accept that the table is loose and decisions will be more difficult after the flop). In fact, I muck a lot "solid value" hands I normally would play in an unopened pot (like AJo in MP, if you raise and everyone folds, you win a pittance. If you raise and get 4 callers, now you're in for 3-5 times a call with the same result as if you'd called in).

3) Try this for a while: Everytime you are going to raise, ask yourself out loud what you hope the raise accomplishes (literally say "for what reason am I raising?" and then answer yourself). Given the state of the table, are your objectives achievable? If the answer is probably not, then just call. Every time you go to bet, ask yourself out loud why you're betting. This is a great trick to "reset" your instincts in the early going.

4) get ready to chuck your hand if you feel they've hit. Also, seldom value bet into these guys on the river - if they've made their draw they'll raise you, if they haven't they'll just fold, so it's a risk with little reward. Just be prepared to check & call a reasonable bet with the very occasional check raise. If they push you off with an all in, let them in the early going.

5) And what kind of made hands are you playing early on? I do not play TPTK against more than 2 opponents early on and will quickly lay it down if the action is too hot & heavy - it's just a trap hand because of all the draws. In fact, as soon as I can remember which tourney I was in, I'm going to post one example here where I hit TPTK with AK (k on the flop) and laid down my hand when the action got really heavy - eventually won by a set of 7's (on the flop). I'll find it and post (I made some major mental mistakes on it as well).