How would you play this ?

**surftheiop** · 10-10-2005

100 people left top 40 cash
i have 4k chips Blinds 150/300 im in the BB Dealt 36o
4 people limp infront of me i check
flop 356 rainbow

SB bets half the pot
I think for awhile and raise all in he calls ( Looking back this seems dumb but i did have pretty low M or whatever it is called)

Turn K
River 5

Results:He had 55 and ends up with quads and i get busted out.

**Jason75** · 10-10-2005

First off, how many chips did each of your opponents have? This is critical to evaluate the play.

If we assume they are all equal stacks, then this is an interesting situation, and I really don't have a problem with your play. At this stage of a tourney, it's not very often you see 4 limpers to the flop.

On the flop, you've got two pair, a good but very vulnerable hand. At the same time, it's impossible to make a serious raise that denies your opponent his odds (if he's betting his draw) that's not an all in. So it's really all in or fold here.

Here's another way I might play this one assuming everyone has equal stacks, we're not percieved as loose or desperate, and we think these are all fairly straight-forward players (that is, they raise with good hands and call with speculative ones): before the flop, go all in for the 4K. I'd bet 75% of the time you'll get everyone to fold, and then draw out about 30% of the time when called. Then you've just picked up $1500 (over one third of your stack)!

**Marm** · 10-10-2005

Yeah, as Jason-I explain my answers-75 said

, its all-in or fold.

**surftheiop** · 10-10-2005

i gathered that but which one is it

**Marm** · 10-10-2005

Originally Posted by surftheiop

i gathered that but which one is it

Which ever you choose.

Personally, I'm pushing in. Even if your beat, You still got outs to the nuts....

**Marm** · 10-10-2005

Originally Posted by Jason75

Here's another way I might play this one assuming everyone has equal stacks, we're not percieved as loose or desperate, and we think these are all fairly straight-forward players (that is, they raise with good hands and call with speculative ones): before the flop, go all in for the 4K. I'd bet 75% of the time you'll get everyone to fold, and then draw out about 30% of the time when called. Then you've just picked up $1500 (over one third of your stack)!

Errrr..... only when I'm drunk. Not a good idea IMHO, especially with 63o?

**surftheiop** · 10-10-2005

thanks for the help - im ordering Harrington on Holdem hopefully that will improve my tough decision making

**Beavis68** · 10-10-2005

I am all in with no looking back here.

**Jason75** · 10-10-2005

Originally Posted by Marm

Errrr..... only when I'm drunk. Not a good idea IMHO, especially with 63o?

Right. I hope my earlier post didn't come off as "just push all in whenever you're the BB and 4 people limp". This is a situational play and is very dependent upon 1) our position and 2) what we know of the other players.

Here's how I would evaluate the conditions for this play:

1) What is my position? We're in the BB and last to act, so no one is waiting behind us. It's just the 4 limpers in front. Very favorable.

2) What's my M? Right now it's 4000/(150+300) = about 9. Ick, I'm in the red zone, and I really have to be prepared to gamble to pick up big pots, and this certainly qualifies as one of them ($1,500 in the pot!). Very favorable to making a move.

3) What's the payoff (is it worth it)? Payoff is $1,500 pot (4 limpers plus our BB which we won't get back if we check and have to fold on the flop). We have $3,700 (4k-300 BB), so the pot represents 40% of our chipstack. Very favorable.

4) Where am I in relation to the $? I'm way off here, and if I don't pick up some chips this one's gonna be over pretty quick for me. Very favorable to making a move.

5) What do my opponents' stacks look like? Anyone really short or have a really big stack? I want to avoid the shorties who are likely much more desperate to call and the biggies who can take a gamble at my whole stack with their pocket 7's and be ok with it. We assumed everyone has about the same chip stack. Ideal (people will put their entire tourney on the line for the call).

6) Are any of these players tricky - that is, do they just call in with very strong hands (I do at irregular intervals and then try to show the hand down - particularly with big pairs - sometime during the tourney. This allows you to play speculative hands in EP & MP by keeping your opponents from raising with medium strong hands when you just call in later). We assumed they're straightforward. Very favorable.

7) Are any of these players loose enough to make the call? If not, then we're looking good. We assumed they're not. Favorable.

8) How does the table perceive us? If we haven't played a hand for a while (always check your own stats as well, in case someone hasn't been paying attention and is just relying on their tracking software), we're looking good. We assumed we haven't played a hand in a while - favorable.

So all in all, I think this is very favorable for the move here. Frankly, I don't even care what the cards are, I think this pot is ours for the taking. And remember, we have 2 ways to win: 1) everyone folds (most likely) and 2) someone calls and we draw out on them (I'd give us about 30% chance to win if called).

Remeber, when we pick up AQ later and the pot has been raised and called to us, I would submit we have a lower chance to win by going all in than we do here with 36o.

**Jason75** · 10-10-2005

Originally Posted by Marm

Yeah, as Jason-I explain my answers-75 said

, its all-in or fold.

I don't know what you're talking about! I never explain my answers!

For instance, on the post the other day, when you said . . . . .

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