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  1. #1
    Stu Ungar triple-t's Avatar
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    Default BB strategy, comments welcome

    I've been toying with a strategy for playing a specific situation in the big blind. I've notices (at the small stakes limit games I play) that when it is folded to the button, he will (95% of the time) call. Usually then, the small blind calls and I check. The flop comes down...SB checks, I check. Every time this happens, the button bets. I am sure that it is usually a bluff to steal the blinds, but also, usually, I have nothing to defend with (62o on a flop of A94 just doesn't appeal to me).

    Anyway, my thoughts are... When I flop a decent drawing hand (outisde straight, flush, or 2 overcards), pop him with a check-raise. I think this would do 2 things. First, it shows him that I think he's bluffing (or that I have a hand). Most of the time, he's either going to fold or call. Then it might buy me a free river card.

    This play probably isn't profitable when it is made, but I think the profit comes from future play. It may get me cheap or free draws in the future. Also, it helps mask when I pick up a big hand from the BB.

    Any comments? I want to know what you all think about this?
    I study at KRE8R's School of Bankroll Management.

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  2. #2
    Check Raiser Aces-o-8s's Avatar
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    BB betting strategies should never be limited to the current round but also to the next. In your strategy you are looking for a possible free card on the river - what was your betting strategy for the turn? For me - I never count on getting a free card when I'm in the Blinds - its out of position!
    A check-raise is a powerful play especially in limit holdem and can get the results you propose but even more important is how well do you know the oppenent and what you think he is most likely to do! In your post you discribe the Button as limping in which tells me that he is more likely on a draw hand and wants to see the flop. Power cards such as A-K, A-Q or pocket pairs should have generated a pre-flop raise - as would a steal attempt with nothing! Stealing from last position after limping in is always a possibility but less so that a pre-flop attempt!
    Another strategy that could save you a small bet for the hands you contimplate doing a check-raise with would be to just bet out! If called, fine you're both going to see the turn; if button and SB fold, great your won it right there; if he raises, you now have a big decision to make - do you call (costs the same as check-raise) or fold (saves you a small bet). At least now you know the button is representing a draw if he calls or a made hand if he raises.
    Best bet is to imploy several strategies and keep your opps unbalanced and guessing what you may have.

  3. #3
    Poker Hustler Trons's Avatar
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    In similar situations, I do several things as Aces suggested:

    A) Raise out PF. If button and SB limp, I'll raise and bet the flop regardless of what I'm holding or what the flop is. I do this if I've been at a table long enough (40-50+hands to generate a tight image). I find while they usually call the raise PF, they fold to the flop bet.

    B) Limp PF, check/call the flop (if it's the button that's betting), and check raise the turn. From what i've seen, this is a decent move in certain situations, but if re-raised by the button, concider folding right there. I like this move if the flop is blanks (or a decent draw) and the turn is better card. Here it helps to know the button. If he isn't seeing a lot of showdowns, you can usually get away with this move...If he calls the check raise, bet out on the river. I'm still working on identifying the situations where this is profitable, but I've decreased the amount of money I'm losing on the blinds, so I must be doing something right

    I will usually fold to a bet from the SB at any point, unless I have a good hand. When I'm UTG, I'll usually raise if I'm coming into the pot and it's folded to me. I will also use these stratagies from the SB also.

    I don't use these plays often...maybe once every 3-4 rounds I'll use one of them...then wait some more. I feel my blind play can use quite a bit of work. I'm still struggling with hands I can play from the SB (in limped pots, when folded to me, in raised pots and such). In the BB, I usually play any hand for 1 bet that I would play from EP for a raise.

    On a final note, I would say that it's very important to know the button when trying these types of move. I usually spend more time paying attention to the people 2 places in front and behind me to try to know how they will react in certain situations. If you have a rock sitting on the button and he comes in for a limp, I would give him far more respect then a weak/loose player doing the same thing. I think this is why it's important to know those players and keep notes on them...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason75
    I like trons' advice.
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  4. #4
    Check Raiser growlers's Avatar
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    Calling first in on the button is an AWFUL play. The fact that they are doing this at all means right there that they aren't very knowledgable about limit hold'em strategy and that they are passive. I would raise almost every time preflop in this situation whether I was SB or BB and then bet the flop.

  5. #5
    Poker Expert NoManner's Avatar
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    It's called a value bet bro, it's a common play that (mathematically) saves you half a bet. The reason it works is that instead of calling both a flop bet and a turn bet, the c-raise on the flop will usually induce a check on the turn, so instead of calling a half bet and a full bet, you only put in one full bet and get to see both turn and river for cheap.

  6. #6
    Stu Ungar KINGJACK's Avatar
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    I would say a guy who 95% of the time flat call from button deserve to be raised 70-80% of the time! Any A, any pair, suited connectors over 7, any suited face, any 2 broadway, any connectors over 9 deserve a raise IMO and face and 8+ should be raised + anything you feel comfortable to play...

    If you prefer to call, check raising any flop and then bet the turn will be a winning play in this situation IMO.

    I'm talking about a guy who flat call from button every single time it's folded to him and then bet the flop every single time.

    KJ

  7. #7
    Stu Ungar KINGJACK's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trons
    In similar situations, I do several things as Aces suggested:

    A) Raise out PF. If button and SB limp, I'll raise and bet the flop regardless of what I'm holding or what the flop is. I do this if I've been at a table long enough (40-50+hands to generate a tight image). I find while they usually call the raise PF, they fold to the flop bet.

    B) Limp PF, check/call the flop (if it's the button that's betting), and check raise the turn. From what i've seen, this is a decent move in certain situations, but if re-raised by the button, concider folding right there. I like this move if the flop is blanks (or a decent draw) and the turn is better card. Here it helps to know the button. If he isn't seeing a lot of showdowns, you can usually get away with this move...If he calls the check raise, bet out on the river. I'm still working on identifying the situations where this is profitable, but I've decreased the amount of money I'm losing on the blinds, so I must be doing something right

    I will usually fold to a bet from the SB at any point, unless I have a good hand. When I'm UTG, I'll usually raise if I'm coming into the pot and it's folded to me. I will also use these stratagies from the SB also.

    I don't use these plays often...maybe once every 3-4 rounds I'll use one of them...then wait some more. I feel my blind play can use quite a bit of work. I'm still struggling with hands I can play from the SB (in limped pots, when folded to me, in raised pots and such). In the BB, I usually play any hand for 1 bet that I would play from EP for a raise.

    On a final note, I would say that it's very important to know the button when trying these types of move. I usually spend more time paying attention to the people 2 places in front and behind me to try to know how they will react in certain situations. If you have a rock sitting on the button and he comes in for a limp, I would give him far more respect then a weak/loose player doing the same thing. I think this is why it's important to know those players and keep notes on them...
    Is hould have red this before answering, I would have save time... good post IMO!

    KJ

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