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Thread: Too weak? O8b

  1. #1
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    Default Too weak? O8b

    PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (9 handed) converter

    I am trying to improve my O8b and now there seem to be alot of games on Pokerstars for them.

    Preflop: Hero is CO with , , , .
    1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

    Should I be raising this hand? I generally just call because I want the button and SB to call and hopefully generate a big pot. Here I was leaning towards raising but didn't.

    Flop: (4.50 SB) , , (4 players)
    BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

    Not a terrible flop, I will get the low with another low card, a 2 or an A will counterfeit the nuts. I call here, I would normally never raise unless I also had a high draw which I don't in this case.

    Turn: (3.75 BB) (3 players)
    UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

    errr...I am not sure what to think of this card, I have the second best low and a now have the nut flush draw.

    River: (6.75 BB) (3 players)
    UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

    River play is easy, what a great card that was. I know this worked out for me this time but I would like to be more aggressive, seems like I played this hand too passively.

    Final Pot: 8.75 BB

    Results in white below:
    UTG doesn't show.
    MP2 doesn't show.
    Hero has 2h Ad 4c 5d (Low: 5, 4, 3, 2, A | High: flush, ace high).
    Outcome: Hero wins 8.75 BB.
    Last edited by Phytopath; 09-20-2005 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Stu Ungar KINGJACK's Avatar
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    Default

    Well... I would have raise PF and Turn for sure... maybe flop too...

    However, I could have win a smaller pot.

    KJ

  3. #3
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    Automatic raise pre-flop A2 + a suited Ace and another wheel card is always a raise from me regardless of # of opponents. A245 with a suited Ace I'd cap heads up pre-flop.

    with 2 opponents i raise this hand on the flop, 70% to end up with nut or 2nd nut low and you do have a pair and runner runner straight and flush possibilities. you are over 50% to get 1/2 this pot raise it up.

    Well if you follow my play from above you bet out on that 2d. but since you've been passive you may be beat both ways at the moment.

    this is a prime reason for aggression in O8, on the flop you may have gotten a lousy to pair to fold to a raise or a bare A3, if you let both of these hands stay in it may cost you both the high and the low. If you can get 1 of them out you can salvage half the pot with your 2 pair or 2nd nut low.
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  4. #4
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    If I played that hand the pot would have at least 11BBs and probably more.

    3.75-4.25 preflop, 1.5-3 on the flop, 3 on the turn and with the big pot I'd get at least 1 crying call on the river.
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  5. #5
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    The only reason I would raise is because of position.

    You hand is good, but could easily turn to crap on the flop.

    On the flop, raise it again.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis68
    The only reason I would raise is because of position.

    You hand is good, but could easily turn to crap on the flop.

    On the flop, raise it again.

    In Omaha any good starting hand can turn to crap, thats the game alot less cut and dry than HE.

  7. #7
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    The only reason I would raise is because of position.
    A good starting hand is only a good starting hand before the flop, Raise it when its good.

    If you miss then you decide how to proceed.

    Raising pre-flop in Omaha 8 does 2 things #1 it gets more money in the pot even if you lose players which only adds to your chances of winning the whole pot.

    #2 People have a hard time throwing away bare second nut draws in big pots, more so than in smaller pots. if the flop is 25K and they have A4xx they will say, "well he could have been raising with A2 or AA so my low may be good and the pot is pretty big so I'll call."

    I'll throw up a few examples of why you raise pre-flop in Omaha 8 a little later when I Have more time. But if you are not raising A245 with a suited Ace in ANY pre-flop scenario you are leaving money on the table.
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  8. #8
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    I probably overstated that, the only reason I would raise 100% of the time is because of position.

    Depending on how loose the players are, I would be more inclined to call if I were the first or second in. If the players will call raises, I will raise more often. This hand plays very well in multi-way pots.

  9. #9
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    A245 suited Ace plays well any which way because when you hit you are looking at some type of nut hand with backup and redraws. Like I said I'd cap it heads up pre-flop if I could.

    Omaha calculators and such don't work well because rarely will someone who has the high hand with top pair or a crappy 2 pair on straight and flush possible board call to the end.

    Real world, no simulator/equity, results say this hand is premium and should be played fast. Sure Someone with AAJ7 has you beat handily for high but how often will they call you down when the board shows 3789Q?

    You'll be freerolling with your low so often that they will be forced to call bet after bet with just an overpair and no low. Simulators say they'll win the high, real world experience tells me they won't be going to showdown and you're scooping.

    A245 with a suited Ace I would raise or re-raise from anywhere, UTG, SB, anywhere. I might occasionally limp in an aggressive game going for the limp re-raise. And if it doesn't get raised I can use the deception later on when I limp.

    Poker is poker, you gotta get the money in the middle when you have the best of it, and you won't find too many pre-flop scenarios in Omaha 8 where you have a better situation than A245.
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  10. #10
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    The one reason I typically limp in early with a hand like this is to get the people with A3, A4 or 23 to play the hand, agreed though if a hand like this was raised and people called the 2 bet I would definately put in a 3-bet.

    I agree I should have raised in this spot, as Beavis said because of position.

    I also agree I would have had to raise the flop if I raised PF and again played more aggressively on the turn.

    I feel my O8b play is too predictable, and I am trying to adjust it. Definately tight passive, coming from mainly Hold'em I have some trouble playing later streets. But I am working on it.

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