River play here? I will post results later.

**growlers** · 09-14-2005

Hi y'all. This was from a live game at the Monte Carlo on the strip - $4-8 limit hold'em with 1/2 kill. I won the previous two pots so posted a $3 kill - they use mini blinds there (ughh) so it is $3 to call and a total of $9 to raise preflop, then it is usual $6-12 hold'em.
Table is a bunch of elderly rocks, mixture of tight passive and loose passive.

preflop dealt to me UTG +1:

I post $3, MP calls $3, SB folds, BB completes to $3, I check in UTG +1 (last to act since I posted kill)

Flop: :

BB checks, I bet $6, MP folds, BB calls $6.

Turn: (pot $21):

BB checks, I check. (correct?)

River: (pot $21)

BB mutters something to the effect of "well, he didn't bet the turn so I'll bet" - directed at the dealer as he always announced his action before he did it routinely. So he bets $12 and the pot is $33 - $12 to me.

I wasn't sure how to interpret that statement based on previous play/statements. My only real "read" was that if I raised he would call with anything including a weak king and unlikely he would raise unless absolute nuts - very much a calling station.

What do I do? Now I realize that some here may think this isn't a big decision /why am I posting this somewhat routine hand but in limit poker you really gotta push your edges to make any money at these low stakes table because the rake/toke cost just eats you alive. So I'm willing to do a certain action if it is even 1% +EV to do so in the long run.
Also, laudations or criticisms of preflop, flop, turn are welcomed and encouraged as well. Should I have bet the turn?

**Beavis68** · 09-14-2005

you dont have equity to bet the turn.

I would probably raise here about 70% of the time. but I dont play 6/12.

**etomicsean** · 09-14-2005

i think i'm flat calling here. you don't have a very high flush and i imagine you are ahead, but still.

**bboy** · 09-14-2005

check turn raise river

he could be betting any pair, any king, or even a bluff. I doubt you are beat by a full house - the only thing that would worry me is the higher flush, but I'd say you're good here about 85-90% of the time.

i'm pretty sure that live 4/8 equates to like 1/2 or 2/4 online

**Steve Ruddock** · 09-14-2005

I'm betting the turn here, it is likely he doesn't have a king and if you check you need to improve on the river to win the pot. he called with something on the flop, middle pair higher flush draw... I don't think he would check call anything with a king in it short of 2 pair for deception since you posted a blind.

A turn bet gives you the chance to win the pot uncontested and at the same time build it if you hit, if he check-raises you fold. The perfect semi-bluff opportunity, there are a lot of hands you can move him off when the top pair on the board pairs.

My guess is he slowplayed a big hand or caught a bigger flush on you. I don't like the comment by him at all, Older people tend to use that 1 level of deception. He wants you to call here in my opinion, which is very general.

As for what happened tough choice, I wouldn't say either way is wrong.

**bboy** · 09-14-2005

you advocate betting $12 in a $21 pot with a hand with no showdown value on the turn after he called a flop bet?

**Steve Ruddock** · 09-14-2005

Yes

I think there is a decent chance he will fold, and I also have outs to improve if he calls.

remember the poster had to post a kill blind, in the BB's mind A8 might have been good on the flop or had a good enough chance to improve to warrant a call, with the second king appearing he could realize he is drawing dead (which of course he isn't but he doesn't need to know that) he may even lay down a bigger flush draw in a small pot with a paired board.

Why semi-bluff the flop if you intend to give up on the turn?

**bboy** · 09-14-2005

Originally Posted by Steve-O

Why semi-bluff the flop if you intend to give up on the turn?

good point

however I dont think he will give up anything at this low of a limit. You have bought your turn and river for 1SB, isn't that good enough?

**Steve Ruddock** · 09-14-2005

If a blank hit I agree with you 100% take the free card, but with the king pairing I think this pot is ripe for the picking. I have a hard time seeing someone playing a weak king like he has so if you get re-raised you are probably drawing dead and can fold

I also think there are a lot of hands he folds here that have you beat. remember its a kill game so these 4/8 rocks don't like having to spend $24 on the turn and river to see a showdown with middle pair.

**bboy** · 09-14-2005

ah i didnt read that table was bnuch of elderly rocks

i had always heard that live play especially low limits like 3/6 and 4/8 are notoriusly loose as in 6+player/flop

in that case i agree with steveo

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