I was playing .01/.02 NL on pokerstars last night and at a table for about 30 minutes was catching a good string of cards (with the exception of a loss with cowboys against AA) but I don't mind a loss like that. However had a string of tough beats at a table earlier and at the new table, I guess I had that image of I only raise with good hands because alot of people folded when I raised? Anyway a new guy sits at the table for about 5-10 mins and is playing pretty loose from the begining. He got called on a few bluffs, so I'm in the small blind I get thrown I raise to .08 bb folds and the new guy calls UTG.

Flop comes I bet .12 and get called
Turn bet .12 get called
River bet .12 get raised .20

Now I was fairly confident he was chasing a flush but was playing so loose since he sat down figured he might be bluffing again. I call he has . I know it's fairly common at ML tables but is there anyway to get people away from chasing a flush?

Also just wondering how alot of you guys play a big ace when you're in the blinds say A,J or better?

you didnt play it horrible but you could have bet more on the turn, your goal when you think someone has a flush draw is to not give them the proper odds to call, the flop bet wasnt bad, it could have been alittle more because it is right around the pot odds he needs to call, on the turn im prolly gonna bet the pot or even alittle over the pot so that in the long run its a positive play for you

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If there wern't luck involed i guess id win everyone

Makes sense, I guess I was a little concerned because I was confident he was on a draw but because he was playing so loose I figured he probably would've called anything in hopes of getting lucky and it paying off.

you're going to get run down a lot at those levels unfortunately. Most folks I know (including myself from time to time) will play a low limit table while also playing a higer limit just so they don't get bored.

I don't have much patience so I usually do this too or will play a sit 'n go while playing a higher limit table and I'll litterally play every hand to test the whole "luck vs skill" thing.

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sites I play on:
Pokerstars for tournaments
Ultimatebet for Omaha
SupremePoker.com for short handed NL ring games.

It is not that simple to just "take away someones odds" like people make it out to be. By this I mean, playing hands in this way is not always the most profitable play, and often, it is not. The reason is that you can never be certain what your opponent is on, so you have to make a play that is optimal given the distribution of cards they might hold. For example, say you take away the odds on the flop (for example) by betting 2x the pot (for arguments sake lets assume this is the good bet given implied odds etc etc). This might be a correct play against a loose flush draw chaser, but what if he has two pair? You've just paid him off big time. Also, what if he has Kx, i.e. top pair also, but a weaker kicker. You might have just scared him off of calling you down with a hand that is way way behind, a hand that he might have easily called the pot or half the pot, and still be getting horrible odds to make the call. If more people thought about making a play that works best for the DISTRIBUTION of hands an opponent might hold versus making an educated guess as to what there opponents hold and making a play best against THAT hand only, there would be much less losers in the poker world.

gaash,

I think you need to understand pot odds better in order to make the right decision.

You would never have to overbet the pot to take away the odds. If you have your opponent on a flush draw....he's about 4 to 1 (slightly lower) to hit his hand. a bet of 1/2 the pot gives him 3 to 1 pot odds (marginal call). If you want to make the odds worse, increase the bet a little more..... 1/2-3/4 pot. If you are worried about implied odds with 2 cards to come up it even further.....pot sized bet or so. If you were wrong and your opponent is holding 2 pair or something you fear has you beat, you are not getting crushed and can slow down or get away frm hand completely. In actuality, if you make the 3/4 to pot size bet and get called, you can assume 1 of 2 things.

1) The guy is a fish and took bad odds to chase a draw.....good for me.
2) The guy has a hand that he willing to fight over.

Against a good player I would assume #2. Now I might play the hand a little more cautiously depending on my holding.

Against a pure fish that I know to be a chaser I have a tougher decision.....maybe he does have something, maybe not...but at least I made him make a mistake if he was chasing.

It's all about having a read on your player. You have to bet to get information, so your bet needs to be strong enough to take away drawing odds, and low enough to give you the info you want without busting your stack.

I would have to assume that overbetting a pot by 2X would be -EV. Either they fold, or you are called by a hand that has you beat.

Example: 100 pot. You bet 200. When a fold occurs you win 100. When a call comes you lose 200. You would need the guy to fold 2 out of 3 times just to break even.

with a 1/2 pot bet that is reversed and you need only 1 fold to break even.

Actually, I understand them quite fine. I'm not gonna bother reading the rest because you obviously didn't read my post, there is an implied odds component in a NL game which can make betting over the pot, even substantially necessary in order to take someones odds away.

Gaash,

If you aren't going to read the rest of the post, communication and the exchange of thoughts is not possible.

If you want to be obstinate, then don't bother posting.

I'd bet a bit more on the turn there. But just one of those things I'm afraid.

All you can do is bet more to make your oppponent think about whether or not HIS play is profitable by calling. I think we can all agree it's exploiting your opponents mistakes which makes you money.

In this situation, I would have simply bet more...what if he didn't catch his flush - you make more money of course?

Point is - maximize your profits by exploiting his mistakes...betting more gives him worse odds to call or be more unprofitable. If you give him the odds to call, it quickly becomes profitable for him, maybe not in the long run, but in this hand it affects you (especially if you are betting the same amounts...it gives him btter odds to call as the cards keep coming) and you may not have an opportunity to get your money back.

Stick to quality poker playing, and recognize sometimes guys get lucky. Just make sure when you bet the odds are a factor!

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