raise preflop - then bet/raise the flop

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Originally Posted by bboy

raise preflop - then bet/raise the flop

I think that BBoy's advice and the way it was played are both valid and should be mixed up some. I would usually follow BBOY's line though.

Should raise preflop given your description of loose players. I agree with just calling the flop as you don't want to start a raising war with somebody who already has a baby flush. I agree with raising the turn as somebody with the K will call down the hand anyway and somebody with a set will call to see if the river pairs the board - might as well charge maximum price while you got the nuts.
A player without either the K or a set will fold the turn regardless of whether you call or raise so might as well get as much into the center on the turn as possible.
I think you played this perfectly except would almost always raise this preflop in this type of game.

Thanks for the input guys, my thinking was along the lines that I had the nuts but someone could have had a spade in their hands they would have paid me off. I guess they probably didn't have anything.

As for not raising pre-flop with the AJo, if the pot hadn't had so many customers already I most certainly would have raised. I generally try to never limp especially in good position, unless the game is quite loose as this one was. Normally I would either toss this hand, or raise.

Is it that much better to raise with a marginal hand like AJo in a loose game?

I realise this is poor/average hand in multi-way pots, so if raising doesn't lose any customers is there anypoint in doing it with a hand such as this? If I do hit a part of the flop, the raise can actually make my opponents make the "right" decision, since they would have the correct pot odds to chase their draws, whereas without the raise they would be making the "wrong" play lacking their pot odds. (errr...does this make sense, it does in my head )

Originally Posted by Phytopath

As for not raising pre-flop with the AJo, if the pot hadn't had so many customers already I most certainly would have raised. I generally try to never limp especially in good position, unless the game is quite loose as this one was. Normally I would either toss this hand, or raise.

Is it that much better to raise with a marginal hand like AJo in a loose game?

I realise this is poor/average hand in multi-way pots, so if raising doesn't lose any customers is there anypoint in doing it with a hand such as this? If I do hit a part of the flop, the raise can actually make my opponents make the "right" decision, since they would have the correct pot odds to chase their draws, whereas without the raise they would be making the "wrong" play lacking their pot odds. (errr...does this make sense, it does in my head )

This goes back to the whole "pot equity" arguement that against a bunch of average loose players you probably have the best hand and it's fine if they all call anyway. This is the Small Stakes Hold'em arguement. I usually either fold or limp (depending on game, it has to be really passive for me to limp) UTG or UTG+1, and raise all other positions. I will happily throw away AJo after a raise any position but usually flat call with AJs if anyone called the raise and I think the blinds will play based on past reactions to preflop raises.
So in other words, I hate playing AJo in a raised pot unless I am doing the raising. I will play AJs in a raised pot as long as 4+ people.

The second part of your arguement is shared by some on these forums based on a few AK discussions, but I argue that you could therefore make the same argument about AA since you threw in the caveat that you hit the flop with your AJ. When you hit the flop with AJ or you have AA, raising preflop has increased the pot odds for draws in both situations. Note I am talking about flush draws, etc, not the situation where you are dominated from the beginning by AQ and you stated you were talking about the circumstances that you hit the flop with your AJ.