I think all of this is fine. I question the value of "information" in this hand. The river caller had two pair, I would probably have called you on the river too since you were forced to post. I don't think you really got useful information on the guy, I would have called you on the river even in a higher limit game, no reason to put you on a 10 in particular. I certainly don't think you can label him as a fish just based on this one hand.
I might have checked the flop only because UTG+1 voluntarily played the hand and you have alot of turn cards that could help you, would hate to get checkraised here. Now before I get flamed, I'm not saying that you should have done this, or even that I would have, I am just saying it is an option only because there are alot of cards that improve you hand and you have position on the turn.

your play was horrible. You bet what is at best a 6 outer into a field of like 5 or so players. No wonder you play 5cent/10cent.

Originally Posted by Trons

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with , . Hero posts a blind of $0.05.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) , , (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (3 BB) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qh Tc (straight, ace high).
BB has Ks 9h (two pair, kings and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB.

I had jst sat down, so I had no reads on anybody, I also didn't have to "choose" to play the hand.

On the Flop, I'm on the button. When it's checked to me, I figured SB and BB didn't have an ace, and UTG didn't have a pair at all (I'm going on nothing here). I bet out A) to see who liked their hand, B)I did have bottom pair and since 2 of the people in the hand were blinds, they could have anything at all, and C)A semi-bluff.

Turn: The nine hits (possible flush now) and it's still checked to me...hmmm. At this point, either he's drawing, or he's got a made hand and he was waiting to get more money from me...Since it's the big blind, I figured either of those were possible and I still can't get a read on him from his betting (Could be a typical calling station). I bet out again thinking at this point I can fold if he raises, if he calls I'm going to bet the river regardsless of what it is. The money (imho) will be well spent setting up an agressive table image and the information I glean will hopefully help me later on...

River: I got my str8, he may have got his too, but he still checks it to me...I honestly expect him to fold at this point and...he calls...he gave me some info, he's a nemo...

I know I've been accused of being too agressive lately and I am trying to do more value betting, I'm wondering here if my thoughts were right and is this a decent way to play a first hand (for the information) or is it not worth it when there's only one other person in the game?

Originally Posted by gaash

your play was horrible. You bet what is at best a 6 outer into a field of like 5 or so players. No wonder you play 5cent/10cent.

Explain this further, please.

Only four people saw the flop and he bet acting last after the two blinds who paid nothing to see the flop checked and the UTG+1 checked. There is a very good chance the blinds will just fold as this is a scary flop for a random blind hand and so therefore you will usually be headsup and sometimes take it right there. There is already 4 SB in the pot so a bet only has to get everyone to fold 25% of the time to be profitable just on the flop and that is a possibility since two of them are blinds and everyone checked.

He has 3 outs to the nuts (nonclub J), club J for very likely winner, 2 Q for very likely winner,and 3 T for two pair (but don't know if I want those anyway as it makes a straight for the J). So if you discount the T somewhat he has about 7-8 outs to improve, not insignificant. This is close to a flush draw and I'm sure you would bet that.

Furthermore, he may have the best hand already as UTG+1 limped preflop and could have lower connectors, lower pocket pair, etc and already showed weakness on the flop by checking after two checks in front of him and keep in mind all three if his opponents had random preflop hands as they all posted. If anyone screwed up this hand it was UTG+1 for not betting out regardless of his hand. I think the only flop argument here is to either bet or check to try to get one of your 7-8 outs, decision soley based on what the odds are that someone will checkraise, but since it is his first hand at the table those odds are unknown. I would be inclined to bet, you can always take a free card if you don't improve on the turn.

I think you need to reread the hand history and provide some actual analysis to back up your "opinion".

This play looks fine IMO...

2 reasons...

You definately have outs after turn and

2nd: if you dont hit, other players will treat you as a fish for a few orbit, and it should be a benifit.

Jacky

Nice hand Trons.

First of all, if you don't include the 10s as outs (and I don't) then he has 2+4 = *6* outs, not "about 7 or 8". Betting here is crazy. That is a scary board against 4 players. Do really think every player missed a flop like that and will fold, especially at a low limit game? Most likely someone here is slow playing a big hand or at the very least a big draw or a K. You need every player to be playing low crap in order to be ahead here, and since you are playing low limit, you will be called by virtually every hand that is ahead of you, exactly what you DONT want. Taking the free card is the best play by far.

Originally Posted by growlers

Explain this further, please.

Only four people saw the flop and he bet acting last after the two blinds who paid nothing to see the flop checked and the UTG+1 checked. There is a very good chance the blinds will just fold as this is a scary flop for a random blind hand and so therefore you will usually be headsup and sometimes take it right there. There is already 4 SB in the pot so a bet only has to get everyone to fold 25% of the time to be profitable just on the flop and that is a possibility since two of them are blinds and everyone checked.

He has 3 outs to the nuts (nonclub J), club J for very likely winner, 2 Q for very likely winner,and 3 T for two pair (but don't know if I want those anyway as it makes a straight for the J). So if you discount the T somewhat he has about 7-8 outs to improve, not insignificant. This is close to a flush draw and I'm sure you would bet that.


Furthermore, he may have the best hand already as UTG+1 limped preflop and could have lower connectors, lower pocket pair, etc and already showed weakness on the flop by checking after two checks in front of him and keep in mind all three if his opponents had random preflop hands as they all posted. If anyone screwed up this hand it was UTG+1 for not betting out regardless of his hand. I think the only flop argument here is to either bet or check to try to get one of your 7-8 outs, decision soley based on what the odds are that someone will checkraise, but since it is his first hand at the table those odds are unknown. I would be inclined to bet, you can always take a free card if you don't improve on the turn.

I think you need to reread the hand history and provide some actual analysis to back up your "opinion".

I think the key to this hand is being the aggressor.

Ok hes against only 3 players, that makes it a better play. I still think he is easily behind though, and he cannot really call a bet on the turn if someone calls him and then bets the turn in front of him if he missed his card. Also, he easily set himself up for a checkraise on the turn to any big hand. Furthermore, it is very likely an A would not bet here, but would check call ... costing the overly aggressive QT way more money than if he just checked and folded on the turn if the hand didn't improve. There are many better opportunites than this one.

Originally Posted by gaash

First of all, if you don't include the 10s as outs (and I don't) then he has 2+4 = *6* outs, not "about 7 or 8". Betting here is crazy. That is a scary board against 4 players. Do really think every player missed a flop like that and will fold, especially at a low limit game? Most likely someone here is slow playing a big hand or at the very least a big draw or a K. You need every player to be playing low crap in order to be ahead here, and since you are playing low limit, you will be called by virtually every hand that is ahead of you, exactly what you DONT want. Taking the free card is the best play by far.

Originally Posted by gaash

First of all, if you don't include the 10s as outs (and I don't) then he has 2+4 = *6* outs, not "about 7 or 8". Betting here is crazy. That is a scary board against 4 players. Do really think every player missed a flop like that and will fold, especially at a low limit game? Most likely someone here is slow playing a big hand or at the very least a big draw or a K. You need every player to be playing low crap in order to be ahead here, and since you are playing low limit, you will be called by virtually every hand that is ahead of you, exactly what you DONT want. Taking the free card is the best play by far.

Thanks for explaining your position, although I still disagree with you (but that's the point of these forums,eh?)

You can clearly include the tens as partial outs for purposes of pot odds discussions. Whether you call them 0.5 / 1 /1.5/2/etc is up for discussion but they clearly have some value, even iif it makes someone a straight you then have full house outs on the river.

I still think you are missing the point that of your three opponents, two are blinds and all three just checked to you. There is no REASON to put anybody on a "big hand". My opinion in this case would be MUCH different if he was say the big blind against three preflop limpers or of course if someone had raised preflop. Also if this was NL clearly a free card is the best play.

Taking the free card is a consideration, as I pointed out in the first reply. I think if there was one more "voluntary" player I would take the free card, the only real fear here is a checkraise and more players increase that chance. Betting also allows you to take a free river card if they check to you on the turn (which is likely). If you just check someone will surely bet at the orphaned pot on the turn whether they have a hand or not. And then you don't know where you stand, gotta fold it, especially since it was a club.

Overall, betting gives you a decent ?20-30% (hard to really say but it aint 0) chance of winning it right there, and a good chance of seeing the turn and river for 1 small bet in a pot that is already 4 SB preflop. Either way is reasonable, but I would bet it.