Should I have folded?

**Trons** · 08-30-2005

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with

,

.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB)

,

(4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB)

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

River: (3.50 BB)

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 doesn't show.
Outcome: MP1 wins 4.50 BB.

History: Both players were very loose players, seeing (estimate) 75% of flops and calling down to the river frequently. Because of this, it was very difficult to get a good read on either. I've seen them both check/call powerful hands (trips or better) and both of them bet out absolute crap but with no regularity (IE: sometimes they would value bet, sometimes they wouldn't). It was almost like they didn't know the value of hands.

Unfortunately, I put them on flush draws after seeing the flop, I didn't bet the turn because I knew they would call regardless and it would cost me another bet, and the river scared me which is why I folded.

**KINGJACK** · 08-30-2005

I would have bet both turn and river.

What he call the flop with... not an A or a J for sure... so probably a FD or even a belly buster. + If he have a PP higher than yours, he would have bet the turn after your check for sure...

My guess is he missed his draw and stole the river...

If he hit a 9 OTR.. well what can you do.

KJ

**KINGJACK** · 08-30-2005

Well I red your post a 2nd time...

Unfortunately, considering your notes on them they vould have A or J, so...

I would hvae bet the turn anyway.

KJ

**growlers** · 08-30-2005

If you bet the flop you HAVE to bet the turn. You are betting into 3 other players with a hand that has only two outs to improve if you are behind, so you have to either check/fold the flop or decide to carry through your charade at least through the turn. The chance that everyone just folds to your flop bet at these limits is very low, so there is not much point in firing once if you won't fire again.

But since you didn't play it that way, you have to call the river bet. Since the turn got checked around and you weakly checked the river, you don't know whether you just induced a bluff to the late position player who just witnessed two rounds of weakness. Good chance he has one of two hands : nothing or a weak ace. With you getting 4.5:1 odds on a river call, you need to call here. So no, you shouldn't have folded.

**xxdemexx** · 08-30-2005

He had an ace with a poor kicker..The Jacks suppressed the betting..

Aces tend to stick around at this level. I'm not sure I would have even opened post flop on this hand.

**KINGJACK** · 08-30-2005

well I dont play these limet, but I cant see why an Ace woul'nd riase the flop for info...

KJ

**Girevik** · 08-31-2005

Being out of position, I probably would have checked the flop, and bet the turn if the flop gets checked through.

Seeing where you were on the river, I can't see a call there. The pot is too small and there is too much out there that beats you.

**Phytopath** · 08-31-2005

Originally Posted by KINGJACK

well I dont play these limet, but I cant see why an Ace woul'nd riase the flop for info...

KJ

Because these are bad/inexperienced players, they can't throw away crap aces yet they are smart or stupid enough to realise they lose alot with them. So when one gets flopped they tend to call all the way, and maybe toss a bet in on the river.

You probably played this right Trons, I think they would have called your turn bet, maybe a check raise on the flop would have got you more info though.

But there is not enough money in the pot to justify a call down here on the river.

**PJ of TheGame** · 08-31-2005

I usually won't bet if an A or a K flops and I can't beat it (at these levels at least). As was said, you're not gonna bet a fish off of a pair of aces weak kicker.

**Marm** · 09-01-2005

I thought about saying bet the turn too, but You took your shot on the flop, Either someobdies got an ace they dont wont to give up, or they are slowplaying Jacks. I like this play.

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