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  1. #1
    PokerForums God the alex's Avatar
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    Default NLHE: Bottom 2 pair v. weak-tight player on the flop

    $500 NL Resorts Casino (bought from Harrah's recently)
    Blinds: 2/5

    Me: on the button with an sbove average stack of $700+ over 45 minutes. I've been a bit fast with position due to some unusually semi-tight play.

    Hand:

    4 folds, Villian limps for $5, CO folds, Hero raises to $20, Blinds fold, Villian calls $15.

    Flop:

    Villian checks. Hero ________? Fill in the blank.

    Villian doesn't play many hands, but is very passive. Your typical "weak-tight" player. Limping with AK wouldn't shock me as would checking with a pair of Kings on the flop with an AK or KQ. Though limping with AQ, JJ, TT, 99, or AJ wouldn't shock me here either. I don't think he's calling my raise with A7, A5, KJ, or KT, and I think he's re-raising, if not opening, PF with AA, KK, or QQ.

    I'm not questioning whether I have the best hand or not, but there are a lot of newer people here on the forum and what I did wouldn't come as much of a surprise to many and I'll update this hand every other day.

    Questions:
    1.) What do I do here?
    2.) What do I want Villian to do?
    3.) How does my action that you suggest get what I want from Villian?
    4.) What's my plan after Villian's expected reaction?
    5.) What's my plan if I don't get the reaction that I want? Basically, how would I react to a check on the turn?
    6.) Are there any real scare cards to come?

    Go at it, boys and girls.

    I'm always open to criticism, but I'm not going to take much criticism to my PF raise unless there's an articulate reason because in this spot, I was raising. If you want to discuss the PF raise or are just curious as to why, feel free to start another thread with a link to this one. I'm not trying to be a jackass, but I'd like if this thread were concentrated on the flop. I don't have 57s. I have bottom 2 pair on the button.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
    GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
    GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

  2. #2
    PokerForums God
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    Default

    Remember, I am a tourney player.


    Questions:
    1.) What do I do here?

    I bet 100-125% of the pot.

    2.) What do I want Villian to do?

    Fold. I do not want to see another high card hit.

    3.) How does my action that you suggest get what I want from Villian?

    Betting the pot is a bit of an over bet, hopefully it will either.


    A. take the pot right here.

    B. Cause your opponent to re-raise, at which point you can get all-in. I want to be all in on the flop because I won't know what cards helped my opponent, and the pot will be pretty big anyway, limiting my options.

    4.) What's my plan after Villian's expected reaction?

    Stack your chips.

    5.) What's my plan if I don't get the reaction that I want? Basically, how would I react to a check on the turn?

    I would push with any raise, the only thing I am afraid of is KKK or an unlikely 777 or 555, which he may fold to a reraise all-in.

    6.) Are there any real scare cards to come?

    Any card above an 8. He may call you with any pair 88+ and could have AK, KQ, or the unlikely KJ.



    If he only calls. There is ~$130 in the pot on the turn. I would put in about $90, if one of my scare cards hits and he pushes now, I really have a tough decision. If he flat calls, I would make a post-oak bet on the river (maybe $100) - and probably call an raise now that the pot is so big.

    I am still in the Cloutier/McEvoy camp with bottom two pair, I almost see it as a semi-bluffing hand. You do have the best hand now most times, but it is hard to now where you are the rest of the hand.
    Last edited by Beavis68; 08-26-2005 at 02:52 PM.

  3. #3
    Check Raiser
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    Default

    I agree with Beavis. I'm going to bet large. I figure that he'll call with AK/KQ, and probably re-raise with a set.

    If I bet the pot and he re-raises, I will probably fold, since I can't see a "very passive" player re-raising with anything other then a set there. If he calls I will assume he has top pair good kicker.

    On the turn/river with a check in front of me I'll put out a teaser bet of about half the pot. If a high card comes and he leads out I'll be very cautious and may call or fold. If a low card/blank comes and he leads out, I'm going to put him on AK and re-raise all-in.

  4. #4
    Poker Hustler eclinchy's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the alex
    Questions:
    1.) What do I do here?
    2.) What do I want Villian to do?
    3.) How does my action that you suggest get what I want from Villian?
    4.) What's my plan after Villian's expected reaction?
    5.) What's my plan if I don't get the reaction that I want? Basically, how would I react to a check on the turn?
    6.) Are there any real scare cards to come?
    1) Make a tiny sucker bet, hoping my opponent has KQ. Perhaps a third of the pot, like $15ish.
    2) I want him to raise me with the worst hand.
    3) My bet is suspiciously small, he'll raise me right here.
    4) Reraise, and reraise big.
    5) Bet big on the turn.
    6) Yes, a king would scare the living shit outta me.
    "Last night I stayed up late playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died."
    -Stephen Wright

  5. #5
    PokerForums God
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    Default

    what about a queen or an ace? or the turn and the river could pair

  6. #6
    slp
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    River Rat slp's Avatar
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    your play here (in my opinion) is rather simple. you've already stated you have a fast reputation so i'm betting out at this pot, you're hoping he is at least sentient and has noticed you taking down many pots without a showdown. If he has, he is possibly "trapping" with his AK or KQ. I'd make a pot size or slightly greater raise. The turn would have to be AKQJ to scare me away from this pot and if it comes lower, i'm pushing the turn.

  7. #7
    Fish Ck1221's Avatar
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    Default

    Don't want to chaage the focus, but if he makes a big bet and gets called, whats the turn and river play? Continue firing or check call?
    ________
    Ford Model F History
    Last edited by Ck1221; 02-19-2011 at 08:07 PM.

  8. #8
    slp
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    River Rat slp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ck1221
    Don't want to chaage the focus, but if he makes a big bet and gets called, whats the turn and river play? Continue firing or check call?
    depends on the turn and river of course, if another K comes out you obviously slow way down but if you hit the boat you can play it a lot of different ways, assuming a blank (like a deuce) you fire away again!

  9. #9
    change my title babo bonchkid's Avatar
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    What's villians stack size mother fucker?

    Option A

    1.)Bet 3/4 of the pot
    2.)Anything but checkraise. That's for sure.
    3.)He's calling with a King... folding anything else?
    4.)Bet a rag, check/fold a king. Weak tight it up if an ace/queen comes

    Option B
    1.) Check behind
    2.) He'll obviously bet a king here. Or any card that pairs him up. Raise it up.
    3.) If he knows you're speeding around he can probably assume you completely missed.
    4.) Bet 1/2 of the pot. Scream steal.
    “There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

  10. #10
    River Rat goose58's Avatar
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    3/4 pot or pot it. Push non scary turn or pot again, otherwise make a 1/2 pot bet if something like a J falls off.

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