Originally Posted by goose58

You didn't see the 40k pot on FTP with SpiritRock vs Phil Ivey? Phil had KQ on a flop of Q37 rainbow i think. He called a 15k allin with TPGK. He won BTW.

In your example, I will call very often. AQ is a HUGE favorite over JQ.

is spirit a pro?

Originally Posted by LearnPoker

Jackemy,

I disagree that limit isn't lower than NL, it is and is more complex. Just read SS1 or SS2, the NL section (both are the same) and if you don't believe Doyle then oh well. Were talking ring games not tourneys. Yeah NL is boring like watching a baseball game but when something happens it's a rush. In my mind there is something fishy about the huge number of people who play NL vs. Limit online yet NL is harder. Sure there are other games but were talking the same game different betting structure. I guess it was a bad question to ask.

First of all 95% of poker is boring to watch. I'm talking abut playing. Doyle mentioned that NL was the "Cadillac of Poker". I have read SS1 but haven't read SS2 but since they are the same, I'll assume I have read both. I am also going to take you word for it that there are more online no limit players than limit, but I've never been at a B&M that spreads more NL games than Limit.

Why do you consider NL harder and more complex?

NL is more of an art form but that doesn't make it harder. Often times you'll hear someone say in limits that they we winning players but haven't been able to post a win for months. It's because in limits, leaks in one's game can be so small that they can go undetectable.

NL is played with a sledgehammer where stack size and manipulation of pot odds is key. It is deceptively easier to play than limits and new players like the rush of the big bluff and the big score. It is also a lot easier for a good NL player to slaughter the fish.

In limits you can't manipulate the pot to nearly the same degree nor does stack size matter. It takes a clear understanding of the math of the game and the application of that math against each and every opponent. In limits you are constantly exploiting small edges which take skill and stamina. The inability of many player to take advantage or see these small edges makes them loser at the higher levels. You constantly hear NL players say they can't handle the suckouts, or hate the fact that they can't buy pots. That is because many of those players don't have the emotional fortitude for limits.

IMHO, I think short-handed limit games are the toughest game to master. (outside of short-handed pot-limit games).