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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > Tell me where you throw this hand away

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2005, 07:55 PM
Chaser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Maine
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Default Tell me where you throw this hand away

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1520)
MP1 (t1280)
MP2 (t1400)
CO (t1140)
Button (t4000)
SB (t2080)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t580)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, MP2 calls t20, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t120) , , (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t80, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls t80.

Turn: (t280) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t200, SB raises to t400, Hero calls t200.

River: (t1080) (2 players)
SB bets t420, Hero calls t420.

Final Pot: t1920

Results in white below:
Hero has Kh Ad (one pair, kings).
SB has Qc 2c (flush, king high).
Outcome: SB wins t1920.


I put him on a 4 card flush, and then a steal attempt. Do you fold this hand on the reraise or the bet on the river? Or did I screw up before that?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2005, 07:59 PM
River Rat
 
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you need to raise this preflop. get hands like that out of there before they even have a shot.
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:01 PM
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Well, since you already checked preflop, I would say fold the turn. You don't really beat anything.
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:06 PM
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the turn on the min raise. min raise like that almost always means incredible strength
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:06 PM
Chaser
 
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I was out of position, and felt like hiding the strength of my hand.
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:13 PM
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You were 6 handed... the strength of your hand was not that impressive. Raise PF next time.
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:21 PM
Chaser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoManner
You were 6 handed... the strength of your hand was not that impressive. Raise PF next time.
It's what I do 90% of the time, but checked this time, so ignore the non PF raise.
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Old 08-22-2005, 07:49 AM
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You can't ignore it, its a pretty big mistkae if you're going to play your hand that strongly on a bad flop for you. You probably need to fold the turn to a minraise there.
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Old 08-22-2005, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe32543
I was out of position, and felt like hiding the strength of my hand.
This is an enormous mistake. Since you are out of position you need to act aggressively pre-flop BECAUSE you will be out of position after the flop. If you had said "I was slow playing this because I had position" then maybe I can understand you trying to let your positional advantage work for you. I will sometimes (5-10% of time) do this when I have position because I need to vary my play, but generally not raising AK is a major mistake. Online I do not even bother trying to vary as much because you just don't meet people enough to have them get a solid read on how I play AK. And also, it is not that strong of a hand.......AK is simply a drawing hand...yes its the best drawing hand, but never forget that you will mostly need to improve in order to win a pot.

Key factor: When you have postion you can afford to let a hand play out slower.

When you will be out of position you want to end it early to nullify the positional disadvantage you will have

The same logic can apply when deciding on an all-in pre-flop (when faced with those decisions). I am much more inclined to make a push if I know I will be at a positional disadvantage than if I will have position on my opponent on the later streets.
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Old 08-22-2005, 09:00 AM
Chaser
 
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For me, the alarm bells go off with the checkraise on the turn. Why would the guy checkraise after a brick lands on the flop (unless he's a maniac). That was you first opportunity to fold. Then, after another relative brick on the river, and after checking the flop and check-raising the turn, he bets big for the first time this hand.

He has shown considerable strength. So what do you have beat? You have top pair, top kicker so what were you hoping he had so you could beat him? You could beat a pair of 2s, 3s, or 8s. But does his play make sense with an underpair? He might have a pair of Qs but he sure was aggressive with only high card before the river. He could have a pair of Ks with a lower kicker, but again really only a maniac would play with that type of hand like he did. Thus, he had to have at least two pair or the flush.

Thank you for this post. I have probably done the same thing in the past and I will try to rectify that in the future. It's easier to analyze someone else's hand with the luxury of leaning back in your chair and thinking about it rather than in the heat of battle.
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