This hand illustrates what I believe to be the perfect play. (Noble hand histories suck so I have to longhand it...)

Limit Hold'em

My 1st hand, I get to see a flop from the BB with

3 other callers...flop is

SB bets, everyone calls.

Turn is

SB bets, I raise. 1 Fold, 2 Fold, SB calls.

River is

I have preselected check/call. SB checks, I check.

I have a pair of jacks.
SB had


I think I played this perfectly for what I knew about the players and what I had. I feel a river bet by me would have only been called by a superior hand or subject to a check raise.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

you played it perfectly whats to comment on

From hand histories I've read here in the past, I feel like a lot of players would bet the river here.

Raise the flop. Fold to a 3-bet. On the turn bet or call if he bets.

raising the flop is bad,

harder to eliminate people

you'ld almost or would be getting the right price if someone 3 bets to call. and you may get stuck calling down if you do improve

I like the flat call on the flop see what everyone else does first

a close 2nd I would just fold

a distant 3rd i raise

Originally Posted by bboy

What hand range did you put SB on? Did you do the turn raise to get a free showdown? Did you put yourself ahead or behind? I'd say value bet the river.

I was thinking the SB had also had a pair of JJ but with a better kicker.

I did raise the turn as a bluff to see if I could get everyone to fold, but if not I was hoping it would give me a free showdown.

I felt like a river bet would only get called by a superior hand so that's why I didn't value bet.

I understand what Steve-O is saying, but if I were going to continue with this hand past the flop, I think I would raise it on the flop, rather than flat call. I wouldn't raise to eliminate players, but rather, I would raise to try to get some information about where I stood in the hand.

I do agree with Steve-O's comment that folding on the flop, even with top pair, is a real consideration. After playing online for over a year, I just started using Pokertracker. While I have only about 2,000 hands tracked so far, one of the statistics that amazes me the most is my performance out of the blinds. It is a huge leak in my game. So far, I'm running a very large deficit from these positions.

Looking at the hands that I've been playing, it seems like I'm losing the most from hands like this one: a hand where I flop top pair, but my kicker is not what it should be. In other words, if I had been in this hand with a J from some other position, my hand would look something like AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, or JJ, depending on my position. However, because I'm in the blind, I find myself with a hand that could easily be dominated by someone playing solid values behind me.

I guess it's a little early from my Pokertracker stats to draw too many conclusions, but this is my initial analysis of why I'm seeing such big losses from the blinds. I throw these observations out for what they are worth, and maybe some of you who have had Pokertracker for longer can corroborate what I think I'm seeing.

I like a raise on the flop, but calling isnt bad either, but if your looking for info, the flop is where its at, not the turn. Gets kinda expensive to get three bet on the turn.

call/bet the turn. and check/call the river.