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  1. #1
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    Default Messed up this one

    This is the hand that really crippled me in the rebuy tournament i just played, and also put me on tilt to lose the rest of my chips.

    Anyways, i wanted to know what mistakes i made here. Obviously the turn check was really terrible, but i really thought i was being trapped by a set. But then i didn't even stick with that read and called off half my chips on the river.


    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2000 (9 handed) converter

    saw flop|saw showdown

    SB (t50286)
    BB (t65400)
    UTG (t7303)
    UTG+1 (t21645)
    Hero (t62290)
    MP2 (t27650)
    MP3 (t56052)
    CO (t15540)
    Button (t16596)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with , .
    2 folds, Hero raises to t6000, 5 folds, BB calls t4000.

    Flop: (t10800) , , (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets t6000, BB calls t6000.

    Turn: (t22800) (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero checks

    River: (t22800) (2 players)
    BB bets t26000, Hero calls t26000.

    Final Pot: t74800

    Results in white below:
    BB has Ad 3d (flush, ace high).
    Hero has Qh Qs (one pair, queens).
    Outcome: BB wins t74800.

  2. #2
    PokerForums God Marm's Avatar
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    Default

    Dude, quit gloating! j/k....

    I'm not really smelling set here. Im, on the flop, thinking hes thinking I've got 2 big overs, and he isnt that far behind with whatever hes got.

    Ok if he traps ya, he traps ya, but you gotta bet at least 16k on the turn.

    And the way it ended up being played, I like the river call, he may have smelled weakness in your checks, and is now possibly bluffing or betting a smaller pair at you. I think the callis warranted given the way it played out.

    EDIT: Ok Rereading that, I'm queasy on this river call. My above statements stills tand, but this is a BOOB (bet out of the Blue). I think folding is a good option, but its a tough one, the large bet either means monster, or a bluff, it is not a value bet....
    Last edited by Marm; 07-30-2005 at 10:09 PM.
    Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.

    Luck is a Residue of Design.

  3. #3
    NL20 Grinder... KRE8R's Avatar
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    Default

    I would have pushed all in when he checked on the turn. He was just trying to get a free card. That is why he called after the flop, he wanted to make you nervous. Why did you check after him on the turn?? That simply doesnt make sense to me. You have top pair, and no obvious plays except maybe the flush. I would have made him pay dearly for that last diamond. You should have pushed all in after he checked. That may have scared him away from trying for the last diamond.

  4. #4
    PokerForums God Marm's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KRE8R
    I would have pushed all in when he checked on the turn. He was just trying to get a free card. That is why he called after the flop, he wanted to make you nervous. Why did you check after him on the turn?? That simply doesnt make sense to me. You have top pair, and no obvious plays except maybe the flush. I would have made him pay dearly for that last diamond. You should have pushed all in after he checked. That may have scared him away from trying for the last diamond.
    Huh?

    Pushing kills any value the QQ has, the only thing thats calling a turn push has QQ beat. Thats a BOOB bet and is not a good idea....

    Free card?? He's assuming and prepared for the turn check, you don't call to get a free card.

    He doesnt have Top pair, hes got an overpair, and theres a straight draw out, A3s and A4s are possible candidates given PF and Flop action....
    Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.

    Luck is a Residue of Design.

  5. #5
    NL20 Grinder... KRE8R's Avatar
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    Default

    I am just saying that I would have either put in a large intimidating bet after he checked on the turn, or I would have pushed all in to grab the fairly large pot right there. By checking he let his opponent see the river for free, and draw out on him. Any power his Queens had was dead by then. And your right, the only thing thats calling a turn push would have to have QQ beat, but that guy was playing like he was on a draw. It would be hard to tell what kind of draw, granted, (straight or flush?), but putting him in the position of make a decision for all of his chips may make him think twice. What could checking on the turn possibly do to help the Queens? He had position, I would have taken advantage of that. I have used this tactic many times in tournaments, and 90% of the time the people will fold because they are not willing to commit all of there chips for whatever they are holding, especially a DRAW. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that the guy would have folded for sure, but with him calling down after the flop It seems like maybe Hero was in a bind. It was a bad situation, and I am simply trying to show how I would have tried to get out of it.
    And the free card I am referring to is the river. He checked after him on the turn, giving him a free look at the river card, and thus allowing him to make his flush. I would have at least made him pay for it. I think your right that Hero showed weakness.

  6. #6
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    ugghh

    you have to bet the turn and you have to bet the pot or close to it

    there are now draws out there. if he wants to call 2 to 1 with only 3 to 1 implied odds to hit a straight, a flush, or his Ace or King, or whatever he's got so be it, he may have called with AJ AQ AK QK if a King or Ace spikes what do you do? Make it incorrect for him to call with any draw, the pot is enough that you don't mind winning it now and he may call with AT or 99 or some such hand.
    Read my musings on poker and life at Online Poker Examiner, Poker Examiner, PokerNewsBoy.com, and My Poker Blog

  7. #7
    Poker Expert Antneye's Avatar
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    totally agree with Stev O.

  8. #8
    Poker Hustler eclinchy's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm far too lazy to read all the responses, so I'm sure what I'm about to say has already been said, but whatever.

    Checking the turn was horrendous.
    "Last night I stayed up late playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died."
    -Stephen Wright

  9. #9
    NL20 Grinder... KRE8R's Avatar
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    In case anyone doesnt realize it from my giant post, I was saying almost exactly what Steve-o said. Make it too expensive to see the river!

  10. #10
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    What all you guys are saying makes sense assuming i put him on a draw or some medium strenght hand that i had beat. Of course now we know what he had so obviously i should have bet the turn, but when the hand is going on, i had no idea what his cards are, and i felt like i was getting trapped. This was just one of those hands where i did not want to commit my whole stack and touranment life too. I might as well just push the turn if im going to bet 16000 or so, id be putting in almost half my stack anyway.

    The way i see it, without having known he had a big draw, this hand could have turned out two ways (if i would have played it how i wanted to). I check the turn and he bets a substantial amount on the river and i fold and save my stack, or he checks the river and i either check or depending i may value bet.

    How the hand did turn out, i made a bad check on the turn and a bad call on the river. But i think some of you guys are being to result oriented here, you know what his cards are, so you know you should bet the turn. And yes, an overpair is a very strong hand, but i felt like with the size of my stack i had a much better chance doing well in the tournament by not pot commiting myself in this hand.

    The thing im mad about in how i played this hand was calling the river. Even after the bad turn check, i still could have gotten away from the hand relativly cheap by folding the river.

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