whats the play here?

**Shadypac** · 07-27-2005

PokerStars Game #2205205675: Tournament #10400635, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII
(200/400) - 2005/07/28 - 01:31:19 (ET)
Table '10400635 38' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: randomfrost (16251 in chips)
Seat 2: M.WaRiO (25148 in chips)
Seat 3: jodanalmonds (14516 in chips)
Seat 4: Tedd_KGB (9756 in chips)
Seat 5: shadypac84 (9745 in chips)
Seat 6: frosty73 (10908 in chips)
Seat 7: fatsketch (6711 in chips)
Seat 9: shawnb85 (12625 in chips)
randomfrost: posts the ante 25
M.WaRiO: posts the ante 25
jodanalmonds: posts the ante 25
Tedd_KGB: posts the ante 25
shadypac84: posts the ante 25
frosty73: posts the ante 25
fatsketch: posts the ante 25
shawnb85: posts the ante 25
jodanalmonds: posts small blind 200
Tedd_KGB: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shadypac84 [Td Th]
SUHoopz35 [observer] said, "gl"
shadypac84: raises 800 to 1200
frosty73: folds
fatsketch: folds
shawnb85: folds
randomfrost: folds
M.WaRiO: calls 1200
jodanalmonds: folds
Tedd_KGB: folds
*** FLOP *** [7d 3d JavaScript]
shadypac84: bets 1600
M.WaRiO: calls 1600
*** TURN *** [7d 3d JavaScript] [2c]
DarkTremor is connected
shadypac84: bets 2000
M.WaRiO: calls 2000
*** RIVER *** [7d 3d JavaScript 2c] [6d]
shadypac84: checks
M.WaRiO: bets 20323 and is all-in
shadypac84: folds
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10400 | Rake 0

Obvious girl bet the turn but i guess my question is, is this an easy push? Leading out for a pot side bet commits me on the river. Take on this guy is typical big stack play...marginal pushes and calls. And even though i girl bet the turn is it an easy laydown on the river or make the call? I just was pissed after this hand cause i know i should have pushed i guess i justgot worried about the overcard on the board and the big stack. I think if he couldnt put me in i obviously would have moved. Ill post results afterwards.

**Marm** · 07-27-2005

Wimpy wimpy betting on all streets. The Pf bet is ok, maybe 1 bb bigger would be nicer since your early and would most just as happy taking th blinds. But you are betting <1/2 pot on the flop and turn.

You gave odds to the flush draw, she hit, you fold.

**Jack King off** · 07-27-2005

well you made the hand very hard to play from the flop. the pot on the flop was around 3k and you bet 1600 into it?

m.wario is decent. he seems to have a brain. i know he plays .5/1 nl

you need to bet 2400 on the flop and it will give you a much better idea of what he has. if he calls im probably check/folding turn, but this way he has to have a decent hand to call you with and you will know where you are. if he raises, you can fold and know it isnt good. you bet 3600 on flop and turn combined. that was wayyyy too weak especially when the pot on the flop was almost 3600 lol

for this river though, i have no idea if your hand is good enough because of the weak bets on the flop/turn. i cant tell if he is slow playing, delayed bluffing, drawing or not sure if his J is good... by the way he played it its very possible it was a bluff. it looks very similiar to something i would do. after you checked that river anyone decent will push there

you gave him such a good price to just call and it looks like he would play diamonds like that. so im going 80% diamonds 20% complete bluff

**the alex** · 07-28-2005

With no re-raise PF, you have to feel good that there's no AA, KK, or QQ out there and I think, with your stack, he'll push with JJ PF. I don't even see an AJ, AQ, or AK here. The real question is: what does he call you PF raise with that's worth calling any bet on the flop? Let's break it down.

I. What will he simply call with PF on the button with 2 left to act?
AA, KK, QQ if he's trying to be cute and induce a re-raise. If he doesn't get it, this kind of person of person will move in on most flops- this flop in particular.

99-22, I'd think that he moves in. Maybe he calls with 99, but I think he's raise or fold PF. (Bear in mind, I'm being heavily general, so take it with a whole salt shaker, if you wish.)

AK and AQ, I think, he's moving in.

AJ-A9, KQ-K9, QJ, JT, I think is a possible call from Villian.

II. Of these hands that I see him calling PF, what is he simply calling on the flop
AA, KK, QQ- he pushing on the flop.

99-77- I think he's calling.

66, 55, 44- I think he's folding.

33- Definitely calling

22- Folding.

AKo, AQo, ATo, A9o- Folding or bluffing all in

KQ, KT- folding

AJ, KJ, QJ, JT- Maybe calling, but I think raising

AKs, AQs, ATs, A9s, A8s, A6s, A5s, A4s, A2- calling or raising

So, basically, all that I can see him having that you can beat is 99 or 88, but a lot of these hands outdraw you on the river. The advantages to an underbet on the flop are:

1.) You see where you're at.
and
2.) You can splash the pot to raise your stack to no diamond, ace, or king on the turn.

I'm pushing on the turn without hesitation and folding the river. You'll have about 7.5bb's if you fold. Never go broke on the river in a tourney calling all in. I use never as a general thought, not an absolute. If you had

and lose to an Ace high flush, I'd feel for you, but still critcize that there's any action on the river.

You need to push on the turn here.

**Shadypac** · 07-28-2005

well he did show what he had and it was absolutley nothing (Q, 9), but i left myself open for a bluff but because i didnt commit myself i couldnt bring myself to make the call. Not trying to be results oriented here either.

Busted out of the tourney after this too...min raise UTG, 1 call i move with AK called by QJs, flop is QQx. Ugh. I was happy how i played up til the hand posted too, i really expected to finish in the money, about 30 places to go or so.

**Announced Tilt** · 07-28-2005

Like Geoff said, this did look like a bluff. Good players will call down when they know your hand until the 3 flush hits to bluff. However, I still don't see how you can call here. You are easily beat.

**reed8857** · 07-28-2005

the size of the bet is wierd too.....if he hit his flush wouldnt he want a caller thus betting enough to get you to call?

**Antneye** · 07-28-2005

Ok..I must admit that I prepared my response before reading the answer, so this is an honest assesment which is not colored by seeing you say he had nothing.

I do not know if you are beat or not, but the way you played this hand has committed half of your chips and leaves you with an all in decision where you are getting 2 to 1 odds on your money. To me his play looks like an obvious flush draw bluff.....he is showing you that he hit his flush. Why would he do this? Wouldn't the guy with the flush make a small bet to extract more chips? The all-in scares you away and costs him money. With 2-1 Pot odds, and a high percentage likelyhood that he is bluffing this is an obvious call to me.

I made the same play last night and got busted when it turned out the player had the nuts, so this isn't always going to win, but this same play will win you more over the long haul than the fold. I would make the same play again tonight that i did last night in a heartbeat.

Now a really good player might make this flush bluff knowing its transparent in order to entice your call because he actually has something, but I think that play will not entice the call often enough to be profitable.

**Jack King off** · 07-28-2005

you cant tell if its the flush or bluff on the river. next time dont put yourself in that spot. if you make a real bet on the flop he folds and you take it down. you made a very very weak bet and he thought he could either hit or take you off the hand later.

next time just bet the pot on the flop to see where you are and they cant make plays on you

**KINGJACK** · 07-28-2005

Well... for me its an obvoius flush...

There is no other hand a decent player would have play this way...

Maybe 9s... or 8s... hoping a 9 (or 8) to make the hand or a diamond to steal.
(pretty tricky play but you see it some times)

7s would have raise the turn or flop IMO...
6s to 2s Fold pre-flop... well you never know, but at least I would... If not at some point during the hand

Any hand with a J would have raise at some point.

JJ QQ KK AA reraise pre-flop... or at least at some point on turn or flop.

So its a flush... only hand you could have beaten is 88 or 99 IMHO.

Sould have make a bet to cut the odds of the FD dramaticly on the flop to see... or push!!! Why not?

KJ

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