Thought it would be fun to see how everyone responds to a couple of concepts


Concept 1) Fast vs Slow

A fast stage is when the average stack is 12BB or fewer. Fast stages are those periods when players drop out like flies.

A slow stage is when the average is 15+. The perfect example is the first level.

Why it is important - Fast stages require a completely different strategy from slow stages and subconciously ALL players adjust to the changing speed. people with 12 or fewer blinds start to feel squeezed and become desperate, people with 20+ blinds feel relaxed and at ease but are also cautious since 1 beat completely changes things.

A fast stage is where an aware player can steal blinds from the relaxed players and knock out the desperate ones, if you are not aware of the tournament speed you will not realize the others players mindsets.

An example - you have 12,000 chips and the avg stack is 4,000 the blinds are 200/400. now most people would sit and back and wait for premium hands but this actually an ideal situation to steal some blinds and make "looser" calls when shortstacks move all in.

A slow stage is where you should lay back and wait, seeing cheap flops with marginal hands that have great potential, like 66 or JQs. during a slow stage the big stacks are usually more willing to call raises especially from short stacks since a beat will be as detrimental to their stack. also shortstacks may try to trap a bit more since winning the blinds is not as worthwhile.

An example - you have 4,000 chips and the avg is 1600 the blinds are 25/50. now is a good opportunity to see some flops and avoid getting your money in preflop without a premium hand. don't challenge the other big stacks and don't bother stealing insignificant blinds.

A slow stage gives people hope even shortstacks will have plenty of blinds to wait for a hand. People tend to play a

more trapping fancy play game in slow phases.

Just remember a player could be in a fast stage in a slow stage. keep an eye on the average stack to see what type of phase the tournament is in but also compare the individual stacks to come up with that players mindset.

Concept 2) Raise amounts

A lot of people seem to have different feelings on what a proper preflop raise is. I think it is determined by what players will fold to.

After all why raise 4X the blind when the Big Blind has been folding to 2X the blind raises? Its apparent he will not call without a hand. This came up in Beavis's Raymer thread and I'd like to hear some other thoughts on it.

100/200 blinds you have 8,000 chips and the table is quite tight. you bring it in from EP with AQs for 800 and are reraised to 2000 by the tight solid player on the button, what do you do???

same situation but you raise to 400 and are reraised to 1600 what do you do? the answer seems a lot simpler doesn't it? it does for me anyway.

when you raise smaller it is easier to let a hand go and your steal attempts have to work less frequently since you are risking 400 to win 300 instead of 800 to win 300. A good player will also have more chances to outplay people post flop when they have a bigger edge.


of course if the table will call 400 raises than this strategy will not work but raising a predetermined amount just because isn't a good strategy either.


Any more thoughts on these 2 topics or other tourney topics

Concept 1: The theory (or wording of the theory) is interesting. While having never thought of it in those terms, I've thought (and adjusted play) accordingly. Obviously it's easy to think of these things, specifically when you're sitting on a larger stack then average. It's easier to adjust your play and stratagies accordingly. I don't know if knowing the speed of the tourney is going to help however. What I mean is that I think almost any informed player is going to raise a bit more when they have more chips then they would if they had a SS. If it's near the bubble and it's getting really tight, I think most SS are going to play even tighter for fear of losing out before the bubble and the large stacks are going to play a little looser to steal the blinds and such. I just don't think there is anything to do about the situation.

I'm not specifically talking about how you adjust your play but more about how you should be cognizant of what the phase of the tourney is doing to your opponents play or more importantly how it is affecting their decisions.

You need to be aware since limping in or raising small in a fast stage will encourage people to make moves on you especially the shorter stacks, the 1 extra bet in the pot to them will look enormous, whereas in a slow phase limping or raising small is less likely to get someone playing back at you without a real hand.

What you were saying about it being easier to let go a hand if you have less in the pot I disagree with. Personally, once my money is in the pot, I have not interest in that money. I do this to myself to keep myself from chasing when I don't need to. I make each decision on each betting rounds based on my hand and my read on my opponents. I do this so I don't get emotionally attatched to the pot and for me, it makes it just as easy to let it go if I miss the flop in either situation above.

Where it becomes interesting is not what makes it easier to let go a hand, but which hurts more. Obviously, the more you have in the pot, the more it's going to hurt your stack if you let the hand go. There again, it's difficult to make the decision unless you have a good read on your opponents.

this is my point putting the extra money in the pot alters the pot odds as well as the damage it does to your stack, whether you like it or not this will affect your decisions.

here is another example that might illustrate this better you have 3600 the blinds are 100/200 and you raise to 800 with AQs. The button reraises all in to 2100 (1300 more) now your getting 3200/1300 and are almost forced to call. with a minimum raise this would change to 2800/1700 big difference. if you fold to the reraise you are left with 2800 or 3200 respectively.

I also like what Beavis added about raising.

Originally Posted by Steve-O

Thought it would be fun to see how everyone responds to a couple of concepts


Concept 1) Fast vs Slow

A fast stage is when the average stack is 12BB or fewer. Fast stages are those periods when players drop out like flies.

A slow stage is when the average is 15+. The perfect example is the first level.

I think of it as three levels, <15, 15-20, >20, but the rest of it applies exactly.

Originally Posted by Steve-O

Concept 2) Raise amounts

A lot of people seem to have different feelings on what a proper preflop raise is. I think it is determined by what players will fold to.

Yup. Its just like changing your game due to other stimuli at the table, this one is very dependent on many factors. Game Speed (above), Your image, the rest of the tables image/play style, etc. You should really only bet what is neccesary to take the pot each time, within like a 3 bb range of course.

If a table is folding to a 2 bb raise (3 to go), then betting 3-6 total is a good play, as long as you there is a weak correlation to hand strength. This keeps your hands unreadable. You should usually have one bet size, but use some form of random game theory indicator to randomize your bets. Like if its both red, bet 3, both black, bet 4, and one of each, bet 5. Or something else thats allows you to randomly selcet bet amounts suitable for your table.

Another good randomizer would be the seconds ona clock, if its 1-30 seconds, bet the median, if it 30-45, bet one less, and 45-60, bet one more. That is probably better since 50% of the time you will betting a good even amount in your range, but the other half it will be up a littel or down a little. Check the clock when its your turn to act to decide.

Originally Posted by Steve-O

I also like what Beavis added about raising.

Same here.

To keep them on their toes, with your premium hands, we do like to get full value for them as beav said, but not letting them get a read on you is key for later play I think.

Use another random indicator to decide your PF play with AA for example. IF the clock is showing 0-40, I'll make a sizable raise in par with the hand, 40-50, a normal sized raise per above, 50-60 Limp in for the limp/raise move (if it can be done at the table, dont attempt it at a table of non-raisers).

While keeping them in the dark is a key element, as beav said, you do need to bet for value sometimes too.