History: I've read several books, Play on 2 sites in play money games (mostly tourneys) and have done decent in several RL games, but there is one concept I can't seem to get straight in my head and I can't determine if it's me, or if it's truely a difficult concept to grasp.

Situation: You're dealt a decent hand of you're choosing, in middle position with a couple before you calling and a couple before you folding, do you raise or call.

Why: The books I've read have been on playing low limit poker, and they both disagree on the same point within their own pages. Both of them say that unless you're truely strong, you should see the flop as cheaply as possible and re-evaluate after the flop, while both of them also state (with the exact same wording) that if you're strong enough to call, you should raise. I can't seem to reconcile these statements.

Personally: I'm a cautious player, I like to see the flop for as little as possible. If I'm given a decent hand (say A-10s) in middle position at a full table, I like to call and see how the Flop comes out. But I undersand the reasoning behind raising in that situation. Right now when I play, I almost literally flip a coin in my mind and make my decision based on that outcome. So far, I like that system because I end up changing my stratagy.

I am afraid that, because the books I've read have been chosen (By my wife as they've both been gifts) more for their price then for their content, that their advice is less then perfect. As you're dealt these hands far more often then the truely powerful hands, I feel this is an important part of the game and I can't seem to reason it out in my head as I hear the arguements for both types of moves strongly in my head when the situation comes up...

Trons

good post...and i personally dont think there is a correct answer. it really does depend on the amount of players at the table, and the strength of these players. if you know there is someone on the table always limping in and catching, a raise of 2-3bb may push them out making your odds of winning that much better.

basically i think the answer to your question is situational. so your coin flip solution, although it seems crazy, may just be the most rational answer.

There's no rules, just a huge number of variables to consider before making your decision.

It's a cliche but posting hand histories for discussion helps a lot.

I've really jst recently started playing seriously and really paying attention to my game play. I don't have any hand histories that illustrate the situation, but the next time I'm faced with it, I'll be sure to save it and post...

Trons

Is this limit or NL? what I do is in NL raise good hands pf 3-4bb, higher if you know they'll call. Ax suited is only strong multiway pot, so get in a cheap as possible and get out if you don't hit it. same wit suited connectAHs and small pairs

Assuming this is limit, I would usually just call with two limpers in front of you and the specific example of A10s. If you are in middle position there are still multiple others to act behind you and if you raise and they three bet you are screwed, since some of the limpers will fold to two more bets and that reduces the multiway action potential of A10s and you might be beat by the threebetter.

Keep in mind if you raise the limpers will call assuming it is not raised behind you so you will not get anyone out. A10s is just not good enough to justify raising to "build a pot" as it just not a good enough raising hand. People limp UTG with AQ AJ all the time (including me) which would be a disaster for you if a A falls. This is a case where the more passive the table is, the worse you are as the AJ guy will check and call you all the way to the river when a A comes, you'll never find out where you are at until showdown.

Everything depends on the specific table of course, but I would normally limp and sometimes fold this, never raise it in a typical small stakes hold'em game with two limpers in front of you. I just can't see the advantage, you can't even take control of the table as you don't have position after the flop unless everyone behind folds, which isn't assured. If you were on the button it is more of a discussion.

NL it is a completely different situation as you can get people out of the pot,an answer that I am not qualified to give an eduacated answer on. I would be surprised if any LIMIT book said to raise this in middle position with two limpers, was this a NL book?

I was just reading you post again about the books comment, PLEASE do yourself a favor and buy Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller. You'll make the $30 back in about two hours after you read it. You can't learn poker by reading books, but it'll plug some leaks in your game.

You might want to list the books that you're reading.

Based on your previous post, you should probably read Small Stakes Hold'em too.

And please educate me as to the specific point you have a problem with instead of just firing a shell randomly to get a response.



edit: This prompted me to pull SSH of the shelf and see specifically what is said, in fact they advocate raising from ANY position consistantly with A10s-AKs, even UTG. I don't personally agree with this with A10s and AJs and two limpers already, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. IMO if I can get it down to 1-2 others I raise with any of these hands but if it is already two limpers in front of me and the big blind behind, who will call no matter what, the pot is multiway already and I feel like 10s with an A kicker or toppair,middlish kicker isn't likely to win anyway. I'd rather see the flop cheap and see how well it hits me since the pot is multiway. I said that SSH is a great book, not that I play poker based religiously on it.

Now if you have specific point about strategy, agreeing or disagreeing, then explain it, just being a $%#& and firing out something without adding to the discussion is lame.