I agree with kliph, although I have only recently moved up in stakes, so have you to take this for what it's worth. I had been playing $3/$6 limit and beating it consistently. So the last time I went to play in a casino, I moved up to $6/$12. What follows are my observations about my first experience at the new level.

I wouldn't say that the $6/$12 game was easier than the $3/$6 game because the players were clearly better. However, because the players were better, there was more of a correlation between the way that you bet and how others responded. For example, a raise from a player UTG was respected, and only players who held strong cards would enter the pot behind such a raise. Also, players did not chase cards as much, and so if you held TPTK after a somewhat ragged flop, your cards held up a little more often because you wouldn't have someone chasing you down to the river with some crazy draw.

The end result is that the pots you won were smaller (in terms of the number of bets in them). That also meant that your mistakes were costlier because it was difficult to make up the bets you lost. Finally, your skills at reading players had to be sharper because the players were definitely capable of making plays calculated to get you to laydown medium strength hands.

I don't find much of a correllation between limit and ability. I've played in 2/4 games where 3 people see the flop and I've played 40/80 where 6 people are seeing the flop.

If you use game selection and seek out soft games the limit should only be a consideration of your bankroll. I can routinely find a 5/10 game online that is as soft as any 1/2 game.

If you have the proper bankroll and use good game selection 5/10 is the same as 1/2, for the most part.

some differences you will encounter are

1) at 1/2 bad players tend to be the ones playing bad cards and chasing where at 5/10 bad players tend to play marginal cards and chase. You won't see too many people playing K4 but you'll still see a lot of people playing K4s.

2) as someone else stated there is more bluffing at 5/10. This doesn't mean they use their bluffs properly just that there is more.

3) the biggest difference to me is your chance of running into a strong player. at 1/2 a strong player is anyone playing ABC poker but you will come across a few strong players as well. at 5/10 the ABC players don't last because you can almost count on there being 1 or possibly more strong players at the table. If you are an ABC player you are probably going to be at best a slight winner at 5/10, however if you are a little ahead of ABC you will do well.

I've said this before but I'll repeat it here because of its relevance

up to 1/2 online a table will have roughly the following breakup of players

5-6 bad players
0-1 good players
3-4 fairly knowledgeable

2/4 to 5/10 online

2-3 bad players
1-2 good players
5-6 fairly knowledgeable

above 5/10

1-2 bad players
1-2 good players
6-7 fairly knowledgeable

so what does this mean????????

think about it this way,

A good player has an advantage over a bad player and a big advantage over fairly knowledgeable players because of how easily you can read their cards and such.

a fairly knowledgeable player has a big advantage over bad players.

so at a 1/2 table an ABC player will have an edge over roughly 50-60% of the table, be break even to about 40%, and at a disadvantage to no more than 10%.

when you put that same ABC player at a 3/6 table his edge drops to 20-30% and is at a disadvantage to 10-20% of the table.

if you put a good player at this same 3/6 table he will have an edge over most of the table just as he would at a 1/2 table. the only determinate for a good player is his bankroll.

If you are an ABC by the book player I wouldn't play above 5/10 and you also need to use game selection to find a game that offers you enough of an edge to make it profitable.

__________________
For poker news, strategy, and more, check out my daily column at Examiner.com

Kliph,

You hit the nail on the head. It's just harder for me to play less technical or not get fancy sometimes (which I know hurts me in the low stakes) but my mind set of the game is going up and the lower stakes just don't fit in with the way I think. In a better game your hands get beat by better hands...most of the time. Like you guys I watch Poker on TV and Online to see what the big dogs do. I understand on TV it's mostly tournament play but I see some real dumb shit. The other night on the WPT (final table), a guy (had 6,6) plus 3 others saw the flop and it came like K,5,3...no flush or straight draw worth mentioning. The guy with trip 6's checks and it does so until the button where Phil Evey was and he bets at the pot for like $100k. The first guy folds and then this guy raises (check raise) to like $400k, what an idiot and even Mike Sexton thought so, why not just smooth call it? HELLO, I'm a pro and shouldn't be making these mistakes! What I'm getting at is there are a lot of levels of poker limit games and there is a point where the competition can only be so good. IMO it then comes down to a mental game where one can handle more money than the other. Like billiards, some guys who hustle can't make the step up because the money will cause them to play worse.

This is good stuff, great replies, thanks.

Yeah above 5/10 I see alot of crazy bluffing but they still have something or outs. Takes a lot of guts at the higher limits but again there at the level of thinking that will make it work. BUT, say a weaker player comes in he/she could crack them early on but of course the other players will adjust there play and then beat the weak player for all his/her money. While this game isn't easy to play there are less tells online so the game should be more cut and dry than live. I would think the competion at the higher stakes might make the game unprofitable? The only way you can make money is playing vs. weaker opponents, not that you guys didn't already know this.

Yeah, well, those are the most profitable games in terms of BB/100, If you can't learn to beat these games, then you are not goign to be able to adapt to the higher level games. I'm not saying it is a requisite to beat these games to move up, jsut that players who CAN'T adapt, CAN'T do wellin pker in general. Learn to adjust your game ot the game you're in, and then think about moving up.

and to move from 1/2 (which you need at least a $600 BR for, especially if you can't bea that game yet.) to 5/10, you are going to need a $3,000 BR. And if you are having trouble beating the 1/2 online game, then I'm highly doubting its the other players faults. Maybe the .01/.02, but 1/2 is VERY beatable.

__________________

I would suggest moving up one at a time. Start with 1/2..goto 2/4..then 3/6..then finally 5/10. I would not jump from 1/2 to 5/10 or your in for a surprise!

__________________
haynesey is a SCAMMER. noone deal with haynesey!
Poker Web Hosting

Depending on the site I can beat up to the $100 NL and $2/4 Limit but really haven't ventured much higher since I'm comfortable there and make OK money but getting burned out. I just feed off my bankroll so it doesn't grow any. Thinking of just not cashing out and move up instead. Is that what you guys are doing?

Thanks

While we never stop learning about poker and based on what people are saying here, it's like there is no chance for anyone going from a 1/2 to a 100/200 table could win. There is so much competition in this game that anyone who can beat up to a 1/2 isn't really that far behind someone that beats a 100/200 IMO. Beating any game of poker is a big step in itself. It's all about the decisions you make each time pre flop, flop, turn and river. I thought of it this way; A pro will make the right decision say 95/100 times while us low limit guys make them only 80/100. Over time this adds up and while there is luck in the short run there is no luck in the long run for victory. As for NL, that is another story. Especially online since it only takes one mistake to lose your stack which sooner or later will happen.

If you are living off your BR at 1/2, Why move? You say you can't stand the way they play but yet you seem to make huge profit from it.

Your questions and staments are very vague and contradictory (IMHO), PLease, specify what lmits EXACTLy do you play, what site (Or live), what your BR is, do you mutli, and how many hours a week do you play?

__________________

A pros edge is a lot more than 15/100. Grinders aren't the same a deceptive loose+tight combo players who know a lot of moves.