So I've been playing a bunch of these heads-up hyper-turbo tournaments and I have to say they are pretty interesting structure wise.

First you get 500 chips with blinds at 10/20 (3-minute increases) which gives you two levels to make standard raises, from there it's basically push-fold. Since people generally play too tight at the stakes that I am playing at, you can really clean-up when the blinds get to 20/40 and 25/50 --anything more than this and it's an all-in fest regardless how tight they play. I rarely get to 30/60.

Now, you could actually play push/fold right from the get-go since you only start with 25BB, but I find raising to 50 in 10/20 and 70 in 15/30 is the more profitable strategy. You can find the perfect push/fold strategy in Bill Chen's mathematics of poekr, and with a little tweaking depending on the opponent I've found it very useful.

Anyone else play these?

Can't say I have played these am as always say a bit of a full ring nitty sort but its an interesting development since we were discussing which is the most profitable form of poker.

Would you say that its something for a more advanced player though?, as you tend to hear a lot about aggression but I think not so much about when is good to apply it.

Also on this note I did play a bit of stud like I mentioned and not so sure what to think it is profitable but very very slow and quite a lot to do with memory- bluffs are possible though surprisingly.

Still back to topic did you pick up any strategy lessons on it or just used the card sharps you already have. I might try these but feel I will be on the tighter side and not so profitable at them. I guess also that you can't do to many at a time as concentration orientated?

I'd say that the strategies needed are simple, but you have to be willing to go with them. Once you know what the proper Game-Theory push/fold range for the effective stacks is, it's just a matter of tweaking it to the individual opponent. I'm actually a so/so NLHE player but I have a lot of Sit & Go experience and was a beast at these in the mid-2000's. A little study on push/fold ranges and I had these down pretty good.

I play 4 at a time with little effort, and considering they take about 10-15 minutes tops I can usually play 20 or so every hour (after about two hours I need a break.

The variance is insane I've heard.

I dabbled in them a bit. I think min-raising is a standard at 10/20,15/30, we can still get stacks in on 3 streets with a min-open. You can 3bet shove at these blind levels super wide against most players. By 20/40 all the regs are likely push/calling at Nash and you just trade variance with no significant edge.

I prefer playing the 1500 stack turbo HU sngs I think.

Originally Posted by WeakTight

The variance is insane I've heard.

I dabbled in them a bit. I think min-raising is a standard at 10/20,15/30, we can still get stacks in on 3 streets with a min-open. You can 3bet shove at these blind levels super wide against most players. By 20/40 all the regs are likely push/calling at Nash and you just trade variance with no significant edge.

I prefer playing the 1500 stack turbo HU sngs I think.

This is likely true at a bit higher stakes than I'm playing. I think there are about 4 regs that I run into that push/fold anywhere near the right frequency. but with the speed and the volume I can play in a short time, even the $7 buy-ins (which have almost zero juice for some reason; I think it's $6.85+$.15!) can reap ok rewards when you play 20-25/hour. Even at a 10% ROI you're looking at about $14/hour before rake and cashback with very minimal risk and variance since the players are extremely bad.

A lot of min raising in the first two levels, but I prefer 2.2-2.5; even at 10/20 you're talking decent $'s of your stack and a single failed c-bet can send you into push/fold early. I usually go 44-50 pre + c-bet of 44-50

The game's very solvable, which is why I doubt there is much profit above the $15-$30 stakes. What are these 1500 Stack Turbos you speak of????

Still as a follow on from most profitable game these stakes of hyper-turbos sounds noteworthy. I don't know if you guys have tried much of it and again it has some differences to the SNGs but some major similarities is the Zoom or standard 6-max tables. I haven't got into them and don't like the idea of their being a tonne of variance but I was looking at an article on p strategy by one of the better regs on there and he was clearly very happy with his ability to crush the game.

He was doing a similar thing to Steve mentioned in identifying tighter opponents and working out how much he could push them he posted a very impressive graph something like $20000-30000 over 50000 hands. He does play quite high but he has a post called ask me anything about 6 max nhle on p strat. It seems to me that a lot of pros are opting for the 6 max games.

Similar to the SNGs you need to have a pretty well developed strategy and know why you are attacking and with what holdings it is better to do so and they are certainly not for the faint-hearted. It looks to me like you put a lot of initial effort in and then get a lot of solid reward. I think it is at least worthwhile to have a look at his article as his graph was which surprised me quite steady which suggest he has reduced effects of variance over large sample?

This is Plenos thread it might be worthwhile to check it out. I'm not currently brave enough to 6 max it up but the graph shows its definately do-able.

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Thanks for that link Peter, do you have the link to his heads-up thread?

Hello again I haven't found the heads up thread yet that's the problem with that site is that once the thread stops getting regular posts you can't find it again without knowing the name however if you drop them a note on that thread they are really good at getting back to you. That guys graph is so sick lol I was just thinking that on zoom you could play 50000 hands in no time.

Another nit fest on NHLE full ring Zoom I getting better at making less mistakes but without the fishier opponents its just not great at all you can bluff a lot of small pots but you have to be very careful to not give value as that is where the regs come into their own. these posts are making me think there is value in trying some of the more aggressive games. I mean literally the SNGs as described and the NHLE 6 that Pleno did sounds like heaven. They are more advanced though so will learn up before making the transition.