It's pretty obvious that Limit Holdem and No Limit Holdem games have dried up in the past couple of years (S&G's, MTT's, and Cash Games are all far more difficult to beat than in the glory days of 2003-2006). Players are also starting to get far better at PLO than in years past. To me Stud games and any hi/lo game are still very beatable.

If I had to choose a single game to play it would probably be Stud 8, with Omaha 8 or better a close second. There is still very little content, be it written or in video training, for either of these formats (most video training for these games is done in Mixed Game videos) and there is a pretty decent player base for both games (especially if we can get PoekrStars, Party Poker, and the other big sites back in the US).

I still think the Triple Draw lowball games and Badugi have some good value, but the player bases for these games is fairly small, and you tend to run into a number of players who know what they are doing.

Any thoughts on this?

Hi Steve just come out of a Zoom session NHLE. It was a total nit fest there are still good spots in Zoom NHLE etc and some players who just do crazy things but I totally agree about games getting tougher. I think there is still a lot of more difficult value spots to find in the cash games that require a lot more work to identify and exploit but because these spots are smaller and you are not exploiting them for very big pots when the tables are tough winrates do go down significantly. Basically more work for less cash.

I have not played a lot of Omaha Badugi etc even though these games are something I will occasionally play as a break from NHLE. I find that even though I have a limited knowledge of them the bigger pots tend to be far easier to win. I played some 7-Stud and literally just bet good pairs and trips to the river (as long as it seemed sensible) and was amazed at how much this earnt with people calling down with total junk pairs.

Some of the players were just so bad in those games but the problem was traffic and my lack of knowledge of the game made me a bit scared money I guess. Also once a fishy player gets stacked and leaves there are generally no more to play against (although this was 888 not Stars).

I think maybe if I tried the 7 stud on Stars and found some info training on it I would be able to work out if decent winrates are possible (in theory they should be and my experience shows so far that those games are soft).

I also noticed a pattern of people callling large bets and drawing 3 cards etc in Badugi I mean you don't have to be a Badugi regular to know how bad that is. The same thing occurs in 7-2 single and triple draw although admitedly these were lower staked games.

I think you are absolutely right about there being a few players who know what they are doing but there are a couple of brightsides to this. 1) I still think the donk/good player ratio is high in Badugi etc and best of all they are easy to spot from the ofset because of their drawing patterns and 2) the regs are also easy to spot from the ofset again because of the drawing patterns.

I think there are more fish and less regs and also smaller fields meaning decent value and in fact I may have a stint at some of these games. I think a lot of players stick to NHLE because when it does get fishy its shoals of fish and also its possible to get decent volume in.

I've been playing more stud lately and the players do seem worse. I really don't have enough time in to be certain but it seems easier to beat than Hold'em games

Hi guys starting to have a big think about the game of Stud. I think maybe its because its in so many Westerns but there is something fascinating about it.

Good luck with it Dupe and have a look at this article it seems to make a lot of sense. I noticed playing stud last night that there are fish that play almost every-hand and pay NO ATTENTION to other players cards and how that might affect their hands.
FeliciaLee: Seven Card Stud Theories (Part One--Introduction and Five Betting Rounds)

In this article they are basically saying that two things are true. The variance is ramped right up and pots are generally bigger.

I noticed in playing that it can be difficult to get max juice on 4 of a kind hands even vs a decent straight etc (saw this first hand) but then this is offset by the fact that pocket pairs etc go to more streets as people try to outdraw you also when you improve to 3 of a kind or full house etc you can get paid of a lot more.

I think also is a lot harder for players to work out if you are 'rolled-up' to and you can get enormous value from higher pairs/ two pairs.

Hnds/hr goes down though. Might play a small stakes session on Stars and post about how it went lol (even if it goes bad which it probably will as have zilch idea in this game).

Stud is unique in that it has five betting rounds, which tend to make the pots bigger, it's also harder to put someone on a hand since the number of unseen cards goes up from 2/7 in Holdem to 3/7 in Stud, which is a pretty big increase when you really think about it

The fact one of the unseens is the river is particularly brutal!

CincinnatiKid_FinalHand - YouTube bad bankroll management in 5CS

How would one start getting into 7 Stud and learning strategy? Where are the resources?

Originally Posted by azeldin

How would one start getting into 7 Stud and learning strategy? Where are the resources?

There isn't much, but if you have a good understanding of general poker strategy you'll pick-up the nuances pretty quick. There are some older books, but I would just start playing and see how you do. The main differences are the third hidden card, the fifth betting round, and the revolving position based on the best hand showing. The only real skill you need that you won't have learned elsewhere is remebering folded cards

I play 7 stud on Carbon. When your used to blind based games it can be a little awkward going to ante based games. Best way to learn 7 stud is to play enough to get a feel for it then. It is so different than holdem. It will take a little experance to get your finger on the pulse of the game. I'm no expert at stud or any kind of poker so I will not amuse readers by trying to offer advice!

Do you play in a live game? If your involved in a home game maybe give stud a try, (easier said than done I realize!). Or try some heads up stud with a poker buddy.

I love stud, it's the game I grew up on. Since the Holdem/TV poker revolution in the 90's I have gotten away from it and just last year started playing stud online. I do much better online playing stud than I do with holdem. Not a lot of stud players though but I prefer playing at a short table as oppsed to a full one.