Ok. On small stakes 2 p 4 p tables, i had ace 10. Some raised to 16 pence,i called and two others called. Ace, 10 jack came on the flop. There were two of the cards suited, so i was aware of the flush. So went all in to Wreck any pot odds for the flush. And everyone folded, hoping someone hit top pair would call. The last person called all in(equal stack of me, 3.50 ish) and the dude hit the nut straight from the flop with king queen. How would you guys played it???And what would have made you guys fold had you gone for slower play option???
My other beat down was again on the small stakes 2 p 4 p tables. I had pocket queens. one guy raised 20 pence(that suggests a monster hand in this stakes lol), a guy called and i called out of postion on big blind, i didnt raise, as i was postioned the worse. than the original guy(he was dealer chip). Anyway, flop came 10, 5, 3. All non suited. It was a dream flop. The guy betted 40 pence, which was strange as it looked a dull flop.As he called THE 20 PECNE RAISE, i was putting him innitially on pockets aces or kings, i was check calling. He raised to 1.60. i called. I then checkedhe then raised me all in. The board had nothing dangerous. No over pairs. I called. He flips over pocket 3's.
Now ive already done my bad beats thread and people give some great comments. So thats done and dusted. im now tring to improve my game. What im strugling to do is fold top pairs and over pair pockets. Should i have folded my queens with the way the guy was betting????Should i have reraised and therefore got the guy with pockt 3's out of there preflop??But at the same time, i have reraised pre flop with jacks and queen and ended up getting blitzed by pockets kings and aces.
Is there a criteria you guys follow to been discapline yourself to fold a very good hand, but not the nuts...
I feel this is the missing piece in the puzzle for my game, and if someone could help me i would be very happy.
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May 20th, 2012 #1
- Join Date
- May 2012
- PFO Points
the folding the "good hands criteria" thread
Last edited by meadowskillas; May 20th, 2012 at 01:03 PM.
May 20th, 2012 #2
- Join Date
- May 2011
- PFO Points
My first piece of advise is that not everyone at low stakes will stack of light and in the opposite some are very tight post and preflop.
2 it is good to have notes on what your opponents are likely to do how lightly they will stack off and what their actions/betting patterns are.
3 get a copy of Pokerstove (its free and brilliant) if you really wish to learn more and also visit pokertrickz and pokerstrategy websites they are very good.
4 Don't worry about losing you stack always be process orientated if you feel that someone is raising you lightly etc you can stack off to them more lightly even facing aggression by contrast it is okay to fold any hand that you wish that you feel is beaten and you will get more used to evaluating this with experience. I think players start of getting stacked very often as the more regular players know what hands and situations they will stack off on and the you learn to adapt to your level and game and get stacked less often. I stacked off light in a session today despite having a dead read on my opponent it was a totally uneccessary stack off but I didn't let it get to me as it will add value to me later on people will say 'hey he stacks of light in that spot I might not fold my drawing hand etc', plus it woke me up to what I was doing wrong to make that mistake.
Try and put your opponent on a range of hands he could have in situations that might go with a re raise in my opinion low stakes the players don't often do creative bluffs etc strong raises are strong for many of the regulars there and re raises and check raises especially so. They also have strategies that they doggedly stick too and often bet the same way or cannot get into big pots with out a certain strength of hand. The opponent you were against with QQ hand probably only re raise with a set and flat cals with a J10 a10 etc or draw.
With hands like A10 whilst you are getting to know the game I would just fold them to a raise preflop unless it is blinds on blinds action. The problem is they are very easily dominated when you call with them sure they are good for stacking AK etc with two pair but they have to hit a two pair which is flopped 1/20 times and when they do the board can be very ugly like in the hand you were in (you have a strong hand but its very hard to know against a re-raise whether you are ahead or behind.) I put through your opponents most likely range on that board against your A10 and your equity tumbles in the hand to thirty one percent (this equation is done on pokerstove).
There is no set criteria in hands but there are good guidelines there are certian hands that in most situations I will not bother playing against a raise. There are certain opponents who I will fold to a re-raise with overs or if they lead out into me with certain bet amounts as they know I'm tight I know they are loose and they know that tight players are good for a stack if they overplay overs, plus I have a lot of hand histories against them. I stacked off today against an opponents with AA whose notes read plays nearly ATC against a raise when they hit two pair or a set will bet aggressively into you for pot or when they have not hit instantly folds- does not bluff does not raise without a made. He bet the pot thing I was not on form one stack minus .
With the QQ hand I go broke in the pre-flop stages you could be right that the opponent has AA KK AK in his hand but until you know the opponent better its hard to get a grip on as he can have a lot here many players overplay AQ AJ 10 10 JJ from this position. Against only AA KK and AK you have 40% percent equity if you get it all in pre and against a wider range it can be up to 58% so this is not an easy easy spot but I three bet pre and go all in pre. The 3 bet also pressurises the weaker part of his range here and gives you the initiative in the hand. If he just flat calls you're three bet you are likely to be more confident of being ahead post flop baring an ace on the flop or even a K (I would bet a king not so much an ace) as well as you have the initiative in the hand then and can c bet fold him often enough. The pot is a decent size too so he will find it difficult to get tricky with you
On the flop the re raise narrows the ranges down again after he has flat called there are still a lot of hands you are against that beat but many opponents just call at this level with such hands re-raises and check raises are usually indicative of two pair plus hands. However there are opponents who will re raise the top pair as they don't like being bluffed but on a dry board like this its going to be either a top pair hand a two pair hand or a set and many players just call raises with pocket pairs to hit sets. Keep a note on the op you played this pot with as this seems like a player who will be unlikely to go broke so easily. If this opponent is leading into you after showing he has a weak hand pre by just calling you need to be very wary of a show of strength pos flopt.
So many players will call at these stakes with loads of suited crap JX sooted QX sooted to hit flush straight two pair set and go nuts betting or just fold on the flop turn river when they don't hit calll call raise usually fits the bill for oh they hit their weird nut hand . By playing strong hands and being aggressive to opponents pre and post flop you take their calling money but you also make them define their hands when they re raise you force them to reveal their strength of cards and can make better decisions vs them and better understand their range of hands. It also allows you to bluff more convincingly to as your opponent will always put you on decent cards they feel that hitting wierd hands makes them unpredictable but in fact as you know how weak they call when they show strength post they are not bluffing and easy to get away from.
Sorry for long response hope it has helped.
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