I was new to the table so I didn't know what this guy was like and vice-versa. Because of the SB re-raise I put him on JJ or higher or AK. The raise on the flop was to see if he had JJ or QQ. I have these questions:
Is it normally safe to assume JJ or better from a SB re-raise?
Is it normally safe to put him on JJ or QQ after he called my raise on the flop?
Is it wise to play this bluff all the way to the river?
I ask because I believe I'm at a turning point in my poker learning where I'm trying more moves like this because I'm considering getting a bankroll together to start grinding at the local card room before the end of the year. Should I keep this move in my repertoire or throw it away?
PokerStars Game #1713487519: Hold'em Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/05/17 - 01:36:20 (ET)
Table 'Pogson' Seat #10 is the button
Seat 1: MTYardDog ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 2: roxanna ($75.50 in chips)
Seat 3: wrkn4thman ($10 in chips)
Seat 4: tanqueboi ($45.75 in chips)
Seat 5: TenMUC ($5 in chips)
Seat 6: Depops ($19.25 in chips)
Seat 8: billye2 ($1.50 in chips)
Seat 9: fignut ($44 in chips)
Seat 10: Circlejerk7 ($25.25 in chips)
MTYardDog: posts small blind $0.25
roxanna: posts big blind $0.50
wrkn4thman: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Depops [![]()
]
wrkn4thman: checks
tanqueboi: folds
TenMUC: folds
Depops: raises $0.50 to $1
billye2: folds
fignut: folds
Circlejerk7: folds
Chanita joins the table at seat #7
MTYardDog: raises $0.50 to $1.50
roxanna: folds
wrkn4thman: folds
Depops: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [![]()
![]()
]
MTYardDog: bets $0.50
TenMUC leaves the table
Depops: raises $0.50 to $1
wrkn4thman leaves the table
MTYardDog: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [![]()
![]()
] [
]
MTYardDog: checks
Depops: bets $1
MTYardDog: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [![]()
![]()
![]()
] [
]
MTYardDog: checks
Depops: bets $1
MTYardDog: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Depops: shows [![]()
] (a pair of Tens)
MTYardDog: shows [![]()
] (a pair of Jacks)
MTYardDog collected $9.75 from pot
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Results 1 to 10 of 21
Thread: Good play or bad play?
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05-16-2005 #1Fish
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
- Posts
- 88
Good play or bad play?
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05-16-2005 #2
Using BHC (BisonBison's Hand Converter)
Fold on the flop. You just had a bad case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome), Its a poker related disease that is considered terminal if not treated quickly enough.
He obviously is not afraid of that King, can't figure out why though, somebody said you need dynamite to get a player off a Pocket Pair, and I guess it applies in multiple ways here. EVen if he was bluffing or had a mid pair aor whatever, this is a long term -EV play, and making regular -EV plays while grinding doesnt work well.
From a standpoint of Info, the flop raise may be good for that, but he called. Means hes got a hand hes probably not giving up. The aggression to the river, while admirable, is not a good idea, especially with his turn call. FOlding on the flop, while giving up, will save you alot of bets in the long run.Last edited by Marm; 05-16-2005 at 10:28 PM.
Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.
Luck is a Residue of Design.
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05-17-2005 #3
Fold the flop. Wait for a better spot to get your money in the middle.
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05-17-2005 #4
he cant fold the flop lol. plenty of hands that miss that
turn is fine
river im c/fing
dont post results next time. hes not folding for one more bet and i dont think you are good here. there was nothing he would be drawing to that he would fold if he missed. i dont think i explained it well, but i saw it pretty clear in my head sorry.it's better to be pissed off than pissed on
missot on stars. come to my poker vent server! (its a voice chat program)
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05-17-2005 #5
Ok maybe you are right, raise or fold the flop. However, if he calls the raise on the flop you have to check it down from there. The bet on the turn was a mistake if you ask me and I still think the raise on the flop was suspect but good to find information. However in this case, he got the information he asked for in the call and didn't use it.
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05-17-2005 #6River Rat
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
- Posts
- 478
IMHO, I don't like either the turn or the river bet. You raised for information on the flop, got it, but then didn't use it.
Here's how I would evaluate the hand. Since the opponent made it 3 bets preflop and led into the flop, it's unlikely that he is playing the only draw reasonably presented by the flop (an open-ended straight with 78 as the hole cards). Rather, it seems pretty clear that he has a made hand, especially since he called the flop raise, and the range of likely hands includes KQ, QQ, and JJ.
I would exclude AK or a set because he did not re-raise the flop or bet or raise on the turn. A hand like A9 is possible, although unlikely, because it does not seem like the kind of hand that would be 3-bet before the flop with. I think the best that you could have hoped for is that he was playing 88 or 77, but I would have checked him down to find out and would have folded to any bets that he made on the turn or river.
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05-17-2005 #7
its .5/1 i think you are giving them way too much credit.
its extremely possible he 3bet pf with AQ and has to fire at any flop and they still call when raised with ace high. lots of times if you bet out on turn they will fold. when he calls again, thats when you know you are beat. i dont think the flop is enough.it's better to be pissed off than pissed on
missot on stars. come to my poker vent server! (its a voice chat program)
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05-17-2005 #8
the sb will bet out on any flop. he got raised and just called. whats that tell us? not that he is strong, but hes weak
Originally Posted by mxp2004
it's better to be pissed off than pissed on
missot on stars. come to my poker vent server! (its a voice chat program)
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05-17-2005 #9River Rat
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
- Posts
- 478
JK... I agree with you to some extent. The fact that he had just called the flop raise does suggest some weakness, and that's why I would rule out a hand like AK. In fact, his call on the flop, coupled with the poster's betting patterns, suggests that he may be concerned that he is playing a hand like KQ against the poster's AK. And of, course, it could also mean that he is playing an underpair to kings.
With that in mind, I suppose I agree that firing out a bet on the turn after the opponent's check could be a EV+ play. If the opponent is thinking about the poster's likely hands, he could reasonably conclude that he is beaten and fold. Since the poster did not know much about this opponent and did not know whether he was a calling station, it's not a terrible play to semi-bluff this pot on the turn. Having said that, I think it is reasonable for the poster to think that he is likely behind in the hand and that a successful semi-bluff is the only way to win the pot.
Thus, I think that the turn bet is somewhat justifiable, and we both agree that the river bet was hopeless.
Let me ask you this: what do you think of the opponent's play?
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05-17-2005 #10PokerForums God
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Posts
- 8,204
Check behind on the river.
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