fold flop?
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($156.65)
UTG+2 ($99.4)
MP1 ($118.9)
MP2 ($98.5)
MP3 ($102.7)
Hero ($100)
Button ($352.65)
SB ($110.55)
BB ($98)
UTG ($46.2)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , . SB posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls $1, 5 folds, Hero raises to $5, 3 folds, UTG raises to $10, Hero calls $5.

Flop: ($21.50) , , (2 players)
UTG bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($29.50) (2 players)
UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6.

River: ($41.50) (2 players)
UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6.

Final Pot: $53.50

I agree with the re-raise or fold, but I say PF. "Would Villian play Jacks this way?" has to be the "#1 Burning Question" here. Why just call PF? To get a read on the flop?

I don't think a fold is bad here, PF, and I'm not a person who's ridiculously quick to put someone on Aces or Kings every time I have Queens, but I'd say fold PF.

You called, I don't think you question the rest of the hand. I think these are bets that you need to call down just in case he's overplaying Jacks or AQ.

It'd be funny if he had Queens.

The small bets with Aces or Kings through the hand aren't surprising because the pot on the flop is only about $20 and he only has about $30 left in his stack on this very soft flop in regards to draws.

Originally Posted by the alex

I don't think a fold is bad here, PF, and I'm not a person who's ridiculously quick to put someone on Aces or Kings every time I have Queens, but I'd say fold PF.

If he HAS to have AA or KK here I'll call preflop. I'm getting 57.7:5(11.54:1) in implied odds if I can take his stack(and come on he's not folding on a Q high flop with that size stack) I'll call if I'm confident I can fold on a 279 flop.

Originally Posted by bonchkid

I'll call if I'm confident I can fold on a 279 flop.

This is the intangible which can kill your odds. How do you think JK played this street by street. The Lay in your implied odds only prove as true if you're playing "fuck 'im or muck 'em." Otherwise you're committing a lot more than $5 to win $46 little by little. The sum of the little+little+little+little are your Lay if you're making a call for implied odds. You have to imply your Lay as honest as you're implying your Get.

Yes, thats reverse implied odds. But if I'm confident I can fold the flop even getting 6:1 you can still call preflop?

But if I'm confident I can fold the flop even getting 6:1 you can still call preflop?

Not if you're only looking for a Queen because you're only 8:1 to hit the flop without him hitting higher trips.

I'm not saying that this is an obvious fold and a good argument can be made for calling or taking a raise or fold approach. If he has AK in EP, he already assured to be heads up on the flop and not out of the realm of possibility for the limp/re-raise. The same can be said for Jacks and Tens because when many people have AK, they commonly put raisers on pairs Queens and lower or AQ and when they have QQ-TT, they commonly put their opponent on AK or AQ. A lot of people will put their opponents on big cards with 99 and down.

These automatic reads are a part of many players instincts. This isn't a smart way to approach the game, but it is a reality that many players think this way. So an argument for re-raising all in could be putting your opponent on AK and limped because they wanted to raise and isolate. Do I like that argument? No, but it's an argument with some validity.

Your argument for calling is a good one as well, but there's no real perfect move here, IMHO. Because of that, I would take a raise/fold position unless I'm playing the hand "fuck 'im or muck 'em" in which calling makes sense, but how about when he only bets $4 into the $20 pot to a K high flop?