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  1. #11
    Poker Professional classickred's Avatar
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    this is probably going to sound mean although I really don't intend it to, but I have to ask: how did you come to play NL400 if you don't know what to do in this situation?

  2. #12
    Staff News Poster MJPerry's Avatar
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    Guys, this isn't a hand that OP played.

    Reading comprehension ftw.

  3. #13
    Poker Professional classickred's Avatar
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    tldr

  4. #14
    Poker Hustler 22Fish's Avatar
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    I will almost always check these to villain, as if they have 99-QQ they will likely check them back. If they have A8 or something they may check them back also.

    If the board goes check/check check/check you can valuebet the river against weak players.

  5. #15
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    Actually, his question was about betting for info.... and everyone jumped on it like it was in the hand analysis section. He was just giving an example with the hand he posted.
    Read my musings on poker and life at Online Poker Examiner, Poker Examiner, PokerNewsBoy.com, and My Poker Blog

  6. #16
    Chaser in4rehab's Avatar
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    OK I'll throw myself under the bus and give an example of somebody making an information bet. I used to do this sort of thing a fair bit until I joined this forum a couple of months ago and found out that what I was doing was affectionately termed a "donklead". Forget the logic, just the name was enough to make me adjust my style......

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com


    Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 7
    3 folds, MP2 bets $1, 3 folds, SB calls $0.90, Hero calls $0.75
    Flop: ($3) 4, 2, J (3 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, MP2 raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Hero folds
    Total pot: $6.50 | Rake: $0.30

    So basically I lead out here thinking that if opp is playing high cards without a jack he folds. If I get raised then I have my information, he has an overpair or a J and I muck as above. This hand is a fine advertisement for not information betting.

    Strangely I used to have some success with this sort of play. I was using it to try and cheaply take down a pot if I thought I was possibly ahead, and I frequently was so I felt good about it. These days I'm preferring the c/raise when I feel like I'm ahead of villains range as I get more of his money into the pot with the cbet and my hand looks stronger than it does on a donklead. I use the c/raise more sparingly though as I'm tipping about 4x the money into the pot as I would have with the info bet so being wrong isn't so cheap.

  7. #17
    River Rat Sid_07's Avatar
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    Donk leading is not a bad word or bad tool to have in your toolbox. Just depends on the situation/villian.

    Problem is alot of people have taken to leading into the PF raiser on dry boards with middle strength hands to see if they are good. The obvious counter strategy to this is to raise said "donk" lead and force the other other middle strength hand to fold. In your example the original PF raiser min raised your 1/2 pot bet and forced you to fold. He can do this with his entire opening range and alway show a profit because your are folding everything except sets and TPGK+

    As to the concept of betting for information. Not a huge fan. Your bets should always be for a reason, but to just find out if you are ahead or not is not a good one imo.

  8. #18
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    As to the concept of betting for information. Not a huge fan. Your bets should always be for a reason, but to just find out if you are ahead or not is not a good one imo.
    AGAIN, it applies more to limit. Read my previous post in this thread
    Read my musings on poker and life at Online Poker Examiner, Poker Examiner, PokerNewsBoy.com, and My Poker Blog

  9. #19
    River Rat Crundy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classickred View Post
    this is probably going to sound mean although I really don't intend it to, but I have to ask: how did you come to play NL400 if you don't know what to do in this situation?
    As someone pointed out, it wasn't my hand. I'm nowhere near playing NL400, I just saw the hand posted somewhere else and I thought that without any information on the villan it may have been a good idea to make a small be instead of checking to know where I was in the hand.

    I have played hands where I have a pocket pair and two overcards come up against two opponents. So if I'm in early position then I'd tend to make a small bet which has won me some small pots there and then. If someone calls then you know they probably have a good draw or have hit one of the overcards so I know to proceed with caution. If they raise then they have probably hit a monster and I need to rethink how good my pocket pair is. Checking seems to only allow the villan to bully you out of the hand (if you wern't planning on check-raising) or allow them to get a free card.
    "I like to play poker with tarot cards...I get a full house and four people die"

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