The thing is, EV is relative to whatever point you want it to be.

If you have the best hand on the river and you fold, you lost the whatever was in the pot. Whether you call that 0EV and calling +(potvalue)EV or you call that -ev it doesn't really matter. What needs to be looked at is what I guess you could call ΔEV. Compare the value of both (or all) of your options and pick the most positive one. Being negative or positive makes almost 0 bearing on your actual play.

Originally Posted by bonchkid

The thing is, EV is relative to whatever point you want it to be.

If you have the best hand on the river and you fold, you lost the whatever was in the pot. Whether you call that 0EV and calling +(potvalue)EV or you call that -ev it doesn't really matter. What needs to be looked at is what I guess you could call ΔEV. Compare the value of both (or all) of your options and pick the most positive one. Being negative or positive makes almost 0 bearing on your actual play.

No, it isn't relative to whatever point you want it to be. It could be relative to any point we (the poker community) wanted to define it to be. However, in order to be able to communicate with one another, we need to agree on a common zero, otherwise saying something is "+5$ EV" is meaningless, like saying the temperature outside is "+20" if we haven't agreed on whether we're talking Kelvin, Celsius, relative to the temperature inside, relative to the temperature yesterday... or something else entirely.

Fortunately, the poker experts have already made the decision for us, and the zero is folding. The letters "EV" imply that you're giving a value relative to folding. If you're giving it relative to something else, you have to say so explicitly.

You're argument comes down to, folding is 0ev because thats the de facto standard, which I agree with to a point.

Originally Posted by Xopods

No, it isn't relative to whatever point you want it to be.

Originally Posted by Xopods

It could be relative to any point we (the poker community) wanted to define it to be.

The problem is, in many cases, folding isn't one of the decisions being considered. In these situations it is necessary to understand how to compare two expectations.