Originally Posted by youngplayer9

Wota, what % of the time do you think you are wrong when you fold KK Pf?

against a 15/10 with he raising, I reraising big and he shoving maybe a little more than 50%, maybe a little less

Originally Posted by WotaWaster

Under 20%.

If I fold KK to KK I don't count it as a mistake since I am giving my opponent a range of KK+ when I fold and so 1/7 times I am folding a chop.

I don't really remember folding kings yet this year but last year I remember folding them a reasonable amount and seeing aces showdown way more often than not if the hands got all in. Also this is full ring, I don't think I ever would fold KK preflop at a 6 handed game.

yes, I guess that depends a lot on the situation
but it should be considered that:
1) very few people would play AQ so agressive
2) it's extremely rare for the other person to have KK
3) AK is not very common also (since you hold 2 of the Ks)

so... it's more likely that, if he's a good player, he has AA (you have 18% equity) or QQ (you have 81% equity)

but depending on how tight the player is and how agressive he's playing, I think many situation AA is more likely...
anyway, in the long run you probably won't lose much putting all the money with KK, but that's not an easy call too

6max I almost never fold and almost always try to get in pre. don't play FR so no comment.
At 6max folding KK pre is probably a bigger leak than not folding, I'll get queens in preflop and not even worry to much. Especially lately with all the crazy 3betting going on.

Also depends on effective stack size, position, amount of hands on opponent, image, potential tilt, etc.

If your 15/10 raises to 4x and you 3bet to 12x and he shoves for 20x you snap call because you only need about 17% eq in the hand and worst case scenario that is what you have
8/(1.5+4+12+20+8)=.17 eq

Hand 0: 82.637% 82.36% 00.27% { AcAd }
Hand 1: 17.363% 17.09% 00.27% { KcKd }

Now if effective stacks are 300bb deep than you have a tougher decision, but here 3beting might not be the smartest play that deep.
The answer is never as simple as always do this. You need to look at the variables and plan you hand accordingly

these are the rules i pretty much follow:

for 6max:
never fold KK pf unless ur like 250-300BB+++ deep, even then i'd still have a hard time folding KK pf

for FR:
never fold KK pf for anything less then 130 BB
never fold KK pf for 200 bb or under if its a late position vs blind battle or a blind vs blind battle.

Originally Posted by WotaWaster

If you open UTG, a standard TAG 3bets and then Voodomonkey 4bets you still don't fold KK for 130bb?

HAHA.. that might be the only exception. But with 100BB I still ship that in pre.

Also, been trying to reach ya on MSN for the last couple of weeks or so but you haven't been responding back?

Was gonna ask for the sign up codes for Empire and Everest.

Wait... I just noticed that the thread title is folding KKs preflop. KKo, I can see folding once in a blue moon, but if they're suited, I'm felting every time.