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Thread: 25nl strategy

  1. #11
    Check Raiser
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavelot
    2) I usually don't like to raise without premium hands on late position if there's a calling station after me
    for example, I think raising 89s on late position is -EV if you know you'll get called
    Quite the contrary. 98s is an amazing hand against a calling station, as if you raised preflop, the only cards they're scared of are an A or a K, since that's what you "must" have. Any 9- or 8-high flop is going to look to them like you whiffed, so you're good to put in bets on two streets with just top pair, if the guy is really loose-passive... and if you flop two-pair or trips, you're so likely to stack the guy. Even a calling station can usually get away from bottom pair if you raised preflop and there's an A on board.

    Plus, if you get a straight or flush draw, they'll let you draw cheaply and pay when you hit, especially the straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by kavelot View Post
    10) that's good against non-maniacs (and won't give you many valuable information, since non-maniacs aren't going all-in too often), but against maniacs that's pretty hard
    some go all-in with Q8 on a Q36 board, but would play almost exactly the same way with AQ or Q6
    But what I'm saying is that if their range is "any Q" on that board, and you have KQ, you're +EV to call a push, even if you're going to go broke sometimes.

    12) I though about one more... don't try to make genius plays! :P
    sometimes it become very obvious with your opponent have... maybe you put him on 2 pairs or a set, and a flush/straight came
    if he's playing loose, your bluff will still be called a lot of times
    because if you raise pretending it's for value, they call "because that's a few bucks"
    if you raise "pretending" it's a bluff (when it actually is), they call "because he bet too much, must be bluffing"
    Trying to bluff someone off two pair or a set at 25NL is not a genius play. It's a lost cause, unless the board is 89TJ spades. I'm talking about something like:

    You raise from the button with JTo, he flats. Flop A98, two suits. He leads out. You flat, putting him on a weak ace. Turn is a blank. He figures you for a stronger ace or a flush draw, so he checks, to find out which it is. You check behind, so now he's sure it's a flush draw. Now:

    Possibility 1: River is a flush card. He checks, you 2/3 pot it, he folds.
    Possibility 2: River is a straight card. He checks, you 2/3 pot it, he calls. Or he makes a small bet, you make a reasonable raise. He thinks for a while and then probably calls.
    Possibility 3: River is a blank. He checks, you check. Or he makes a small bet, you fold.
    Last edited by Xopods; 02-09-2009 at 07:04 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xopods View Post
    (...) so he checks, to find out which it is. You check behind, so now he's sure it's a flush draw.
    oh, this never happens to me
    most donks are usually agressive with any pair
    and most good players will probably try to find out where they're making a reasonable sized bet here

  3. #13
    Poker Hustler 22Fish's Avatar
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    Yea, you wont get people laying down two pair or sets much or ever especially if the game has been agro up to that point.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavelot View Post
    most good players will probably try to find out where they're making a reasonable sized bet here
    I don't know about that. Maybe if the suited cards are the 8 and 9, but if it was say the A and 8 of clubs, I don't know if a reasonable sized bet does tell you where you're at, since there are so many possible combo draws or pair + draw hands that will call even a pot bet on the turn. I suppose most people would reraise/push AK/AQ to your information bet, though.

    It's been a while since I've played much full ring. I'd be C/C-ing a weak ace on that board at least part of the time, though, to keep the pot small, make my river fold easy if a draw hits, and extract turn semibluffs/river bluffs from a draw to compensate for the times I'm losing to a big A. Also, a lot of cards on the river will make a big A slow down and save me money, while simultaneously making a busted draw more likely to bluff.
    Last edited by Xopods; 02-09-2009 at 09:54 AM.

  5. #15
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xopods View Post
    2) If you want to raise light with position, you want to raise small pairs and suited connectors, which have a chance to flop huge, undetectable monsters, and can fold easily when they miss. Small kings and small aces are the *worst* hands to raise with, because your reverse implied odds are so bad. That's assuming your opponent is a standard donk who's calling with mostly paint. If he's a smarter player, calling with his own suited connectors, then small aces are okay to raise with position, with the caveat that you're going to play them sneakily post-flop if you hit, as making your TPWK obvious leaves you vulnerable against a good player with an unknown hand.
    In the case of bad shortstack calling stations though (which you will see alot of at 25nl), iso-raising with hands like A7 is way better than 44/67s imo.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidab157 View Post
    In the case of bad shortstack calling stations though (which you will see alot of at 25nl), iso-raising with hands like A7 is way better than 44/67s imo.
    if you're willing to just play agressive if the A come, I think that's ok
    but that will happen like 15%(?) of the times
    and even if you get the A on a board like TJA (or even 4JA, as long as he calls your first bet and a T or Q comes), it becomes hard to play

    with 44/67s it's easier, IMO, to lose less or win big

  7. #17
    River Rat Sid_07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavelot View Post
    I appreciate the comments

    1) yeah, I guess you're correct
    I just have had some bad moments playing agressive against maniacs, so I guess I was too afraid

    Don't be afraid, just have position

    2) I usually don't like to raise without premium hands on late position if there's a calling station after me
    for example, I think raising 89s on late position is -EV if you know you'll get called

    but, if you're facing tight players (that are so rare in this stakes), you might raise almost any hand

    89s is a premium hand in the CO or the button, calling stations are easy, don't bluff, vBulletin thinly

    10) that's good against non-maniacs (and won't give you many valuable information, since non-maniacs aren't going all-in too often), but against maniacs that's pretty hard
    some go all-in with Q8 on a Q36 board, but would play almost exactly the same way with AQ or Q6

    I usually see couple of TAGs getting it allin a session as well and that is usually really valuable because you get see how they played all three streets and start to understand their thougth process

    12) I though about one more... don't try to make genius plays! :P
    sometimes it become very obvious with your opponent have... maybe you put him on 2 pairs or a set, and a flush/straight came
    if he's playing loose, your bluff will still be called a lot of times
    because if you raise pretending it's for value, they call "because that's a few bucks"
    if you raise "pretending" it's a bluff (when it actually is), they call "because he bet too much, must be bluffing"

    bluffing at 25nl is a much overused tactic. Solid ABC will win the day almost every time. FPS has destroyed more rolls than all the donks combined
    .

  8. #18
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    you're fucking high...it's shark week.

  9. #19
    Fish Food pokershortstack's Avatar
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    I think at 25NL it's key to just be patient. Even if you are really really tight, people will just call it off anyway. This will do you fine up to 100NL at least. If you notice regulars at the table, and you have a tight image, then bluff them just based on board texture and range (raise or check-raise cbets on 'dry' boards eg K72) but DONT go running multi-street bluffs on them.

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