i'm posting this because i don't feel i check raise enough, and i feel as if it's a leak although perhaps it isn't. got a lot of thoughts about it however i'm not the best at articulating them logically so bare with me.

-to check raise i have to be oop (obv)
-i'm always trying to play pots in position, and rarely flat pfrs if we're going to the flop HU
-if i do flat it's usually set mining multiway or suited connector fit or fold type hands, never stuff like KJ, so i rarely make a top pair type hand
-i should always strive to play my top pair type hands and sets the same way, however i'm never flatting cards that make top pair type hands oop, so when i do c/r my hand is basically face up
-when i do flop 8+ out draws i'm almost always double barreling them (should i be check raising these?)
-raising pre then check raising the flop looks fucking retarded/insanely strong
-more often than not flops are 3way since my games are loose and can't rely on someone cbetting
-most donks dont size their cbets correctly so i can't count on trapping a 4/5 psb in the pot

board types
-dry yield a lot of fold equity since it's either monsters/air (usually only sets), although the dumb villains i play with stack off w/ overpairs anyway
-wet boards are less likely for villains to fire at (and my opponents are passive) so i risk giving them free cards so leading is better with a legit hand for value + protection

basically what i'm getting at is i dont feel there are enough ideal spots for me to be check raising mainly because of my limits and table selection, although i get away with pwning anyway so should i be bitching? should i just reserve it for when i get move up more and meet more tagfish who cbet every flop no matter what like it's their job?

comments/thoughts/discussion plz

I am a huge fan of the check raise. It is a move every player knows and experiences on a daily basis however I feel like it does get very under utilized. Or at least it does not get utilized properly.

I will elect to check raise in one of two basic scenarios:

1) When I flop a big hand. This will vary a bit depending on the texture of the flop and the players I'm against, however basically this is my standard way to get more value out of my hands. Flopped sets are a HUGE favorite of mine to check raise people with. However what I will normally do is check/call flop then check/raise turn (if I think I'm getting a double barrel otherwise I'll bet the turn).

2) When I see someone making a standard C-bet. Another really common one. Say play bets 3xBB pre, I call from the SB with T9cc. Flop comes out 732 rainbow. I check and the player bets about 2/3 the pot. If I've seen this player C-bet most flops then I'm check raising right here to try and just take it down. If I do get a call, depending on the turn card I might bet the turn if I think the villain is the type that will call with AK on that flop.

Limit poker is where I really like play number 1 just because the bets double on the turn and it's a great way to get more value out of the hand. Don't go crazy with this though and check 66 on a Th96h board. Protect your hands, but if you have a window to be a bit more tricky then the check/raise is normally a great option.

Part 1 use when you have an aggro image, part 2 try out more when you get a tighter image.

I belive I c/r too much, it seems to be playing little sucessful part of my cash games online, the oponents you are talking about surve no purpose to c/r imo, I check raise the regs live and do well off it, this is for bluffs and value. It is a huge show of strength but people online seem occasionaly to just not pay attention.

yeah i was kinda pissed no one replied

well the check-raise heavily polarizes your hands between monsters+air so I don't think it should be overused. I used to do it with tptk type hands against players with autobet on, but other than the fact tptk reduces likelihood that villian hit the flop, it's essentially a bluff since you virtually never get to showdown.

I'll reply better when I give it more thought but I generally do it with sets on wet texture flops and often against TAGs who predictably cbet dry flops

Originally Posted by piv

i'm posting this because i don't feel i check raise enough, and i feel as if it's a leak although perhaps it isn't. got a lot of thoughts about it however i'm not the best at articulating them logically so bare with me.

-to check raise i have to be oop (obv)
-i'm always trying to play pots in position, and rarely flat pfrs if we're going to the flop HU
-if i do flat it's usually set mining multiway or suited connector fit or fold type hands, never stuff like KJ, so i rarely make a top pair type hand
-i should always strive to play my top pair type hands and sets the same way, however i'm never flatting cards that make top pair type hands oop, so when i do c/r my hand is basically face up
-when i do flop 8+ out draws i'm almost always double barreling them (should i be check raising these?)
-raising pre then check raising the flop looks fucking retarded/insanely strong
-more often than not flops are 3way since my games are loose and can't rely on someone cbetting
-most donks dont size their cbets correctly so i can't count on trapping a 4/5 psb in the pot

board types
-dry yield a lot of fold equity since it's either monsters/air (usually only sets), although the dumb villains i play with stack off w/ overpairs anyway
-wet boards are less likely for villains to fire at (and my opponents are passive) so i risk giving them free cards so leading is better with a legit hand for value + protection

basically what i'm getting at is i dont feel there are enough ideal spots for me to be check raising mainly because of my limits and table selection, although i get away with pwning anyway so should i be bitching? should i just reserve it for when i get move up more and meet more tagfish who cbet every flop no matter what like it's their job?

comments/thoughts/discussion plz

1. Obv
2. Why are you rarely flatting preflop?
3. Again why? If MP opens do you fold KQs in the BB?
4. It's not faceup if you have a range, also theres not anything wrong with your hand being faceup, people won't always believe you and will often times spew. Don't underestimate peoples penchant to call.
5. More situational than general, be specific
6. I disagree it looks like you are giving up on the pot until you c/r
7. I agree, I would lead my big hands in small stakes multiway pots.
8. Trap them into what? You don't really have to trap them into anything, if you c/r the flop getting the stack in on the river is no problem.


Dry flop c/rs get less respect because you rep a super narrow value range, so people will float/rebluff.
Your point isnt necessarily true, as a default leading or c/ring are both fine, but neither is best, in a vacuum, its about him, how he views you, how often he cbets, if he ever checks back made hands, etc.

Sorry your question is saying they are more easily pushed off a hand on a dry board? I just don't understand the grammar.