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  1. #1
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    Default Short stacks in cash games

    I read somewhere big stacks always lose to (good) short stacks, I think it was in Skalanskys NL book.

    Does anyone know why this would be the case (assuming perfect play)?

  2. #2
    piv
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    Stu Ungar piv's Avatar
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    it's because you have to either a strategy for either deep or short stacks. if you play a 100bb strat the shorters have an edge on you coz they can shove over your LP raises and you can't call them correctly, but if you adjust to the short strategy while the majority of the people at the table are deep with you you'll have your blinds taken adn you'll be folding the best hand vs them too often.

    best you can do is make your pfr a bit smaller and call them with like AT+ KJ+ 66+

  3. #3
    Super Moderator WotaWaster's Avatar
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    Because we are always typing DIE YOU SHORTSTACKING PENIS and end up timing out when they are at the table giving them an edge.
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  4. #4
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    with a short stack, shortstackers do not play after the flop thus it is very hard to make big mistakes/bad calls/whatver when all you need to learn is unexploitable pushing ranges

  5. #5
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
    with a short stack, shortstackers do not play after the flop thus it is very hard to make big mistakes/bad calls/whatver when all you need to learn is unexploitable pushing ranges
    True, but suppose the big stacks adjust to that accordingly, and play just as well. Shouldn't the short stacks be donating due to their tight play and thus losing many blinds? Also, the gap concept forces them to play (relatively) tight even against someone who opens say 50% from the cutoff.

  6. #6
    Poker Professional squeezyplayer's Avatar
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    it's b/c they suck too many dicks

  7. #7
    Poker Professional squeezyplayer's Avatar
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    ok, think about this situation:

    i am on the btn with a 100bb stack, sb is a pro shortstacker with 20bb, and bb is a huge fish who has me covered. there is almost no hand that i can't play profitably in position against a weak postflop player. if the sb were a non-factor, i would certainly be opening stuff like 54o and 92s. however, if sb is 3bet shoving with close to optimum frequency, then i am basically giving away money whenever i make a light open there. so the ss'er basically ruins what would be a marginally +ev spot for me. they basically make money off people who open in those spots anyway just b/c they think the benefit of playing pots with a fish is enough to overcome any equity lost to the shorty.

    what a lot of people dont understand is that the shortness of the stack by itself isnt really an issue. playing a shortstacker hu, while not very fun, will at least be unexploitable. same for playing at a 6handed table vs. 5 shortstacks. the problem only develops when there is a significant difference in stacksizes at 1 table.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeezyplayer View Post
    i am on the btn with a 100bb stack, sb is a pro shortstacker with 20bb, and bb is a huge fish who has me covered. there is almost no hand that i can't play profitably in position against a weak postflop player. if the sb were a non-factor, i would certainly be opening stuff like 54o and 92s. however, if sb is 3bet shoving with close to optimum frequency, then i am basically giving away money whenever i make a light open there. so the ss'er basically ruins what would be a marginally +ev spot for me. they basically make money off people who open in those spots anyway just b/c they think the benefit of playing pots with a fish is enough to overcome any equity lost to the shorty.
    So what you're saying is they are gay.
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  9. #9
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    My least favorite poker term: Optimum frequency
    Read my musings on poker and life at Online Poker Examiner, Poker Examiner, PokerNewsBoy.com, and My Poker Blog

  10. #10
    Poker Professional squeezyplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    My least favorite poker term: Optimum frequency
    what dont you like about it? seems pretty irreplaceable to me

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