Short stacks in cash games

**squeezyplayer** · 06-02-2008

Originally Posted by davidab157

So what you're saying is they are gay.

ya that is the short answer, i just felt long winded today

**trippedupA-Town** · 06-02-2008

im going to try to find this old (but very useful) thread started by one of the top MSNL shortstack players.

Im on the fence about shortstack players. when i played online a lot a while ago, i was beginning to develop a very solid choo choo game against the deep tag regulars on stars.

regardless ill find that link.

**chewbacca13** · 06-07-2008

So if your sitting at a tablewith 100bb and everyone else has 20bb your going to lose? whatever if they are all playing perfectly?
Why do we all not play gay short stacks then?

**Steve Ruddock** · 06-07-2008

A short stack can only remain a short stack for 1 win though

**tightagressive** · 06-17-2008

Originally Posted by OrionPro

True, but suppose the big stacks adjust to that accordingly, and play just as well. Shouldn't the short stacks be donating due to their tight play and thus losing many blinds? Also, the gap concept forces them to play (relatively) tight even against someone who opens say 50% from the cutoff.

i really don't have any idea if its true.

I do know that in like a 10-20blind match late in sng or whatever there is an unexploitable pushing strategy called nash equilibrium. if you play it, the best your opponent can do is tie you.

if you can find such a strategy for heads up i dont think theres any reason you couldn't for 6 handed play with that ammount of blinds.

Also keep in mind short stacks pay less in rake (i think?)

so assuming the edge is equal maybe they will always make more playing perfectly do to the ammount less they pay in rake

**PJ of TheGame** · 06-18-2008

Imagine a three way pot, two players have 200bb stacks, the third has 40bb.

In any situation where the big stacks consider betting or calling, they have to consider both implied odds and inverse implied odds. Winning a 100bb bet on the river from the other big stack completely dwarfs anything that happens with the small stack. This means that the big stacks have to act and react like the small stack ISNT EVEN THERE. Therefore the small stack can play what seems to him to be perfect poker (betting the nuts, calling with odds, folding without them) ... and doesn't have to worry about being exploited because the big stacks can't risk being minus ev against each other in order to make plays to exploit the small stack.

The lack of reverse implied odds and such is also strong for them. When you're getting all in on the flop with the best hand, calling you without proper pot-odds is always a mistake. But if you just made a PSB on the flop for 10% of our effective stacks... I can often call here with -EV hands and still make money because you could make a mistake on a later street by stacking off when I hit.

Does it help us in any way though? Not at the limits I play, that's for sure. I can ALLREADY peddle the nuts and fold middle strength hands and make good profit... but if I was on a small stack I'd be getting paid off a lot less when I had the big hands. In addition, the fold equity that short stacks have to rely on to make steady profit isn't there at small stakes.

**ngaskin** · 06-18-2008

Originally Posted by Steve-O

A short stack can only remain a short stack for 1 win though

But if they are playing 'correct' short stack strategy and buying in with 20BB as soon as they get to 25BB or more they should be leaving the table, because if they get to 40BB they can not play correct short stack strategy

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