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  #1 ()  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:48 PM
Fish Food
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4
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Default endgame blind vs. blind

Bodog 20 rebuy 18 left out of 90 with 9 getting paid.

Blinds 400-800 100 ante

My stack after posting BB: 8400 Enemy after posting SB: 10500

Enemy is a strong TAG player who makes the final table of this event quite a bit. The SB on the previous hand had a huge stack and pushed all in on the Enemy’s BB and Enemy folded. I have not played with the Enemy a lot, but I have not seen him get out of line much, but he can be tricky. I just sat down at this table so I do not know how he is playing on this night. Enemy has not played with me a lot, but he has seen some of my deep finishes in this event, so I think he has some respect for my game.

It is folded to Enemy who completes. Pot after he completes is 2400. The pot is huge especially with my chip stack and where the blinds are, and both myself and SB are below average. I don’t feel like he has a big hand, but rather wants to see a flop.

I have J 10 clubs. What do you do?
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  #2 ()  
Old 01-05-2008, 02:12 PM
obga's Avatar
Stu Ungar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,059
Trade Rating: (3)
Limits Played: $0.05-$0.10 NL
Default

check it...see the flop.....shove any straight draw /flush draws

play jacks accordinly and 10s the same...
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  #3 ()  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:43 PM
The Real DeCoy's Avatar
Poker Hustler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NYC
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see the flop. Play it smart. Shove is not necessarily the right thing here. Its way more complex. I usually dont get in a pissing match with my blind partners. I like a made hand on the flop before Im risking tourney life. I'd rather pound someone I know I have a strong advantage over and can get some hand info rather than previous observation info.
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  #4 ()  
Old 01-06-2008, 06:41 AM
obga's Avatar
Stu Ungar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,059
Trade Rating: (3)
Limits Played: $0.05-$0.10 NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real DeCoy View Post
see the flop. Play it smart. Shove is not necessarily the right thing here. Its way more complex. I usually dont get in a pissing match with my blind partners. I like a made hand on the flop before Im risking tourney life. I'd rather pound someone I know I have a strong advantage over and can get some hand info rather than previous observation info.
are we playing to win or playing to place 3rd and 4th like you have?
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  #5 ()  
Old 01-08-2008, 12:29 AM
Fish Food
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4
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My argument for checking behind is that I have basically earned another orbit to try and pick up a better situation for shoving, and the fact that he was just shoved on by a huge stack on the previous hand and had to fold his BB, so he may be a little upset by that and call me with a wider range just out of spite. Plus I have position, but given the pot and stack sizes postflop play is limited and will most likely end in pot committing bets anyway.

My argument for shoving is that this is a great situation to shove, relatively speaking as it is blind vs. blind and he has a below average stack himself and I do not equate much strength to his limp. If he has a big pair he can't be sure how I will respond to his limp, most likely I would check it and take a flop and he won't know if it hit me or not. He would be better off raising my BB and hope I see it as a blind steal and repop, or at least call with a weaker range trying to snap him off.

If I push, he folds most hands unless he is upset from the previous hand. If he calls, I am risking 8400 to win 19200 and get above average. These are very good odds unless he has over pair which is unlikely. We are far from the money and my objective is to win not squeak into the money.
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  #6 ()  
Old 01-12-2008, 05:33 PM
tightagressive's Avatar
Stu Ungar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,999
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Default

I like to shove in this sort of spot. It's definitely +ev.

If you check, which is fine if he doesn't limp in this spot much, then I would bet almost any flop he checks to me on 1/2pot.

I might not bet A x x cause he should know I'm shoving ax preflop.

Flops like Q x x and K x x I'm betting.

Junk flops where a random hand in bb is likely to hit are fine to bet to.

Start betting here with atc and you will be surprised on how often you take it down.

If you shove and he calls, oh well, win the 60/40 or fire up another mtt.
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  #7 ()  
Old 01-12-2008, 05:34 PM
obga's Avatar
Stu Ungar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
I like to shove in this sort of spot. It's definitely +ev.
.

knowing the guy that just won 8k+ and i agree

makes me +ev
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