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  1. #1
    Fish Rolfe_WJ_2's Avatar
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    Default Shorthanded (5/6 Max) Limit poker starting hands

    I am sure we have all seen those tables of starting hands vs position for full ring limit hold em games, but has anyone ever seen an equivalent for 6 max games? Does anyone think such a table would even be viable?!

    Thanks

    Rolfey

  2. #2
    PokerForums God Marm's Avatar
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    Very viable.

    Basically, Big pairs a,d Big suited aces go up in value, LOne paint cards go up, smaller pairs go up a little, Suited connectors go down.

    I could be off a little, but basically a hand needs stand-alone value to be useful in 6max games.
    Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.

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  3. #3
    Check Raiser
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    I'm not sure what tables you're talking about -- I"m going to assume its a Sklansky and Malmuth sort of deal that lists if your 'x' seats off the button, these are the hands you can play/raise with.

    IF that's the case (big if!) I would think for a 6-player max table your "starting hand requirements" would pretty much mirror those given for a 10-player table if you just cut off all columns larger than button+3...although I'd personally adjust my raising requirements a bit tighter than that...but for playability, I think that would work rather than constructing a whole new table based on just six players. I don't see anything to the game dynamic that makes a huge difference if you're UTG on a 6 max. table vs. if you're fifth to act at a 10-player table and everyone before you has folded.

    Would love to hear Steve-O's take on this one since he's a bit of a theoretician and can probably say if I'm missing something glaringly obvious in my gut reaction to the question.
    :cool:

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  4. #4
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    I'm not sure if linking to another site is allowed, but 6-Max Guide is a great guide. It discusses preflop play from all positions, which help a lot.

    Marm had it mostly correct already, though.

  5. #5
    Fish Rolfe_WJ_2's Avatar
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    Yup, the exactly the kind of table I am talking about.

    I was thinking of trying to develop one, but... a) not sure if I have the skill b) didnt want to waste my time if there is already one available c) would one be useful even if I did!

    I've been playing online poker for a couple of years, and haven't played a full ring for about 18 months or more. I lost over and over in the begininng, then moved onto sit n go's, where I learnt all my poker skills, and then went on to 6 max games, where, luckily, I have made a $$$£ I think that post flop play has more influence in 6 max games than in the full ring game. If thats the case, I am partly argueing against the validity of even using an aid like a position table!! I guess more thought and research is needed!!

  6. #6
    (Formerly Steve-O) Steve Ruddock's Avatar
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    I won't be around much the next 2 weeks I'm staying at foxwoods but I'll log on occasionally.

    Shade brings up a good point about treating it as if the first 3 players folded. the only thing different is your position.

    I play basically the same hands with 6 people as I do with 10 but I raise a lot more, pre and post-flop. KJ, KQ, AT all become hands I raise with. middle pair becomes a post flop raise (of course knowing your opponent will help) my favorite thing to do shorthanded is identify the guy who always defends his blind but folds on the flop. once you find him you can raise 27 offsuit, if you miss nad he calls your flop bet just check and fold the turn, you know he has you beat. you'll get it back all the times he folds the best hand.

    Basically 6 handed if I'm gonna play it I raise it, excluding obvious pot odds calls you will make. AT is either raise or fold pre-flop ditto for every other hand. shorthanded I want to win without showdown so I can steal as many pots as possible.

    as far as a chart goes it really, I MEAN REALLY, depends on the table. if it's a tight table where someone raises and only the blind calls, you can raise 44, JTs, or AT UTG. if it's a loose aggressive table this is a fold.

    Interesting thread I'd like to hear some other thoughts when I check back tomorrow.
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  7. #7
    Fish Rolfe_WJ_2's Avatar
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    Well, in my experience, with tables that had average pots of 7.5 x Big Bet, and players per flop %65+ you can play almost ultra tight, like a robot. I did this at www.betfairpoker.com until that site tightened up somewhat. After that I had to chane my game, now I am looking to raise pre-flop or fold. I very rarely play hands without two cards ten or higher in my hands, unless I have a pocket pair. If I raise, or fold, depends on how many people have limped in or folded before more. If I am in late position, I'll raise with K 9 or maybe even as low as Q 8 if I think I can get away with it.

    I think that any starting hand table generated for 6 Max poker might need to be 3 dimensional, including position, players left in, and pocket cards - now.. what do you think to that idea!

  8. #8
    Banned GuppieBear's Avatar
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    i mainly play 5/6 max and notice that there are much more swings here than at full tables. I'd say you would need double the bankroll to consistently play these tables than full tables due to the swings.

  9. #9
    PokerForums God the alex's Avatar
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    Have you read, Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players by Sklansky/Malmuth. I'm re-reading right now. Good section on shorthanded play. The math is VERY practical and simple.
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  10. #10
    Fish Rolfe_WJ_2's Avatar
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    Nope, I haven't ..... I feel a quick look at ebay coming on

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