I see it much more often now than I have in the past. Some donkey limps then calls a PF raise OOP with sooted crap, flops the flush draw, then minbets, calls your raise, then check calls the turn when he misses or check-raises when he hits. He'll check-fold the river if he misses turn and river. Here's a hypothetical example.

Villain is UTG+1 and has around t1800
Hero is Button with around t2000
Blinds are 15/30
Everyone else has t1000-t2000 chips

Preflop - Hero has (or any similar marginal but raisable hand in this situation)

UTG+1 limps, folds to Hero OTB, Hero raises to t120, blinds fold, UTG+1 calls

Flop (pot = t285)
UTG+1 bets t30, Hero raises to t200, UTG calls (pot was t515 he had to call t170 getting 3.03 to 1)

Turn (pot = t685)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t300, UTG+1 calls (pot was t985, he called t300 for 3.28 to 1 odds)

River (pot = t1285)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t400, UTG+1 folds.

In this example, UTG+1 calls 2 bets without proper odds (needs at least 4 to 1 to call on a FD) making them incorrect so we profit in Sklansky dollars anyway. In order for this line to work, though, we have to do the following to minimize the implied odds we offer (or his calls are correct):

- If the third flush card hits, we have to check behind or fold to his bet
- If an ace hits, check behind or fold (He most likely has Axs)
- If third flush card hits on turn and we both check, then blank on river and he makes a donkishly small bet, I think we have to call, but fold to any normal sized or overbet.
- We have to be wary of any backdoor draws that might get there.
- We have to be wary of a board pair as he could have small pair+FD
- Never try this against a player who appears solid

Comments? Suggestions?

Just using pocket threes as an example. But if the donkey had K7 on the example flop, he's probably not minbetting. Usually it's a check-raise with that flop. In order to even try this, donkey's line has to be limp, call, minbet. I'd say it's +ev because he's going to have a FD or SD more times than he'll have 2 pair.

Originally Posted by piv

"spew" means a bad play, ie "spewing" chips (losing them).

Quite aware of that, thanks.

Originally Posted by piv

Posting hand histories here is a better way to improve your game than reading outdated articles too

Welcome.

Where did that come from? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This wasn't about an "outdated article" or any article for that matter. It was an observation from the tables on the tactics of donkeys and a possible way of countering it.

Originally Posted by triple-t

Where did that come from? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This wasn't about an "outdated article" or any article for that matter. It was an observation from the tables on the tactics of donkeys and a possible way of countering it.

i think that there was a spamtastical link to some donk article posted while u were gone and which the nightshift fairy deleted.

i have the feeling that Piv's post was directed at that poster and not u.

Originally Posted by DeeYakaBaka

i think that there was a spamtastical link to some donk article posted while u were gone and which the nightshift fairy deleted.

i have the feeling that Piv's post was directed at that poster and not u.

My bad. I'd hoped that I didn't come across as the type of player that didn't know what a spew was...

Yeah I deleted some spam which asked "what is spew?" before enlightening us to some random site.

To those who don't know what spew is, it is what happens when I drink bourbon after drinking tequila.