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  1. #1
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    Default Irexes' Guide to MTT Qualifiers

    Ok, this is not definitive, probably not that helpful and definitely way too long

    But I thought I'd put some thoughts down about my experience of MTT qualifiers, don't worry I can touch-type and enjoy writing so it didn't take as long as it might appear, so your criticism will not sting (that much)...



    I really enjoy playing Multi-Table-Tourneys, I've played a fair number of $20-$30 MTTs and made a number of final tables and had the odd decent win. One of the nice things about a big MTT is investing a relatively small amount of cash to potentially win a lot. If you are playing for entertainment rather than to make a regular profit, then a big MTT is about as entertaining as it gets.

    My Credentials (such as they are)

    In seeking bigger and better thrills but not wishing to pay for it, I decided to try the Qualifiers for the $200k and Quarter Million Guarenteed Tourneys. The format of these is $9/1 with a seat awarded in the main tourney for every 24 entrants ($200/15). I'm delighted to say that of the 13 Qualifiers I've entered, I've qualified 3 times (twice for the Quarter Million, once for the for $200k). So for $130 invested I've won $660 worth of entries. Two facts to acknowledge here; first I've yet to money in the tourneys got close but not quite there yet; and second it's a small enough sample to believe I've been lucky rather than good.

    But notwithstanding all that, here's my thoughts...


    Guide to Qualifiers

    On Party the Qualifiers tend to have between 150 and 200 people (sometimes more). For the purposes of this guide I'm going to assume 170 people (meaning the top 7 qualify).

    First thing to note about Qualifiers is that they are different to normal MTTs. The aim of the game is not to win, but to Qualify. This is of course obvious but it's amazing how many people play to win, when playing not to lose is the name of the game.


    First hour


    As with most MTTs slightly over half the field will go out in the first hour, meaning that the average stack will be 2000ish at the first break. In a normal MTT the ideal is to get a nice stack ahead of the average and build for the latter stages. In a qualifier it's less of a handicap to have a 1000 chips at an hour or even 90 minutes in. At this point the blinds will be 150/75 and if you have yet to reach 1500 the pressure to push will start to mount, but you will have had a good 90 minutes to pick your spot.

    A comment on the type of player in these Qualfiers; the buy-in is cheap and although there will be plenty of rocks, there will also be a good share of maniacs raising J9o under the gun and refusing to fold because folding is for wimps. The buy-in also means that some better players will be prepared to gamble more than they would in normal MTTs. The general atmosphere is loose, so applying the principle that the most successful approach is the opposite to everyone else, tight is the way to succeed.

    Identifying a maniac (they'll be the ones with 4000 chips after 10 hands or with a VPIP over 40%) and getting all-in preflop with AA, KK or QQ will pay-off, or post-flop with Top Pair Top Kicker or better. ABC poker, playing quality hands, raising 3-5x the BB with strength and limping into community pots in late position with the occassional drawing hand (Axs and the odd suited connector if you get bored) and more importantly getting out of the hands that you miss, will pretty much guarentee survival.

    Similarly avoid all-in coinflips ie. AK V underpair or expensive probe bets against solid players that eat away at your stack. There may be scope for bluffing or semi-bluffing the rocks if you are sure they have missed a flop, but there are so many maniacs early in these that it's not usually necessary to get involved in riskier plays in the first hour.

    Assuming you don't hit a beat (your KK losing to AJ for example), you should find yourself with at least 2000 chips after an hour and half the field gone. Already the chance of qualifying will have dropped from 24 to 1, to 12 to 1.


    Second hour

    Now's the time to start having fun. I think the second hour in a tournament is often where it is defined. Either you get ahead of the game or settle down for the long grind. In MTTs of this size it's particularly crucial.

    As a rule of thumb I aim for 10% of the chips in play for the final table. In our example there are 170 players so 170,000 chips in play, a target of 17,000. It is always worth bearing in mind that this it is only 3 double-ups from 2000 to 16,000 and that it is entirely possible to come back from almost dead to big-stack at a table in very few hands (obvious, but worth stating as a philosophy to stave off tilt when it all goes wrong).

    There are two scenarios for the second hour

    1) You start with 3000+ chips and can pick on the small stacks who a being pressured by the blinds and get 10000+ chips by the end of hour 2. This is the period to exercise some creativity in betting and hand selection (though I wouldn't compromise too far, Qxs is never a powerhouse)

    2) You have 1000-2000 chips and scrape along for the whole hour without great success

    The first scenario is clearly the preferable and it's always fun to play pots and build a stack. However while I like to play pots and move chips with a stack between 3000 and 10,000, as soon as I hit 10,000 I tighten up to the extreme. With 10,000 chips you can pretty much guarentee that if you auto-folded you would make the final 20. Clearly there is no need to auto-fold, however there is also no need to get involved in anything other than pots where you are a clear favourite (it is also nice to start building a tight image for end-game). Playing AA, KK, QQ and seeing flops V single opponents with AK is all that you need to get involved with.

    I view it like this. To get to 10,000 you've done the hard work and bought a ticket for the final 20-30, so sit tight and wait while everyone else gets knocked out and if the opportunity presents itself then push with the monster hands. The remaining maniacs will be moving up and down like crazy at this point and it's not uncommon to see stacks rise to 20,000 and then bust out.

    The second scenario is less fun but no disaster. The lowest number of chips I've reached the final table with is 4000 (never getting above 5000). In a normal MTT this would mean a smaller payout and the sensible thing would be to push earlier with any strength hoping to double, but it's no crime to wait in a qualifier. Be patient, pick an ideal spot and push. As with most poker it's all about observation and patience. Let everyone else make the mistakes.

    (wow an 8000 character limit on posts, who'd have known? continued below...)
    Last edited by Irexes; 03-19-2005 at 06:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    Third hour

    About 20-30% of the field will be left at this point, which in our example is 34-51 and the finish line is in sight.

    You may not have played many hands and you may still only have 4000-5000 chips but you are now possibly as good as 5 to 1 to qualify and have a shot at the big time.

    Two approaches here and they both involve patience. Small stack wait and push, big stack fold, fold, fold. Boring but effective, wait for the Quarter Million for your excitement.

    About a third of those left will have stacks smaller than 10x the blinds which will be at least 300/600 and rising fast. It's surprising how quickly people drop-out in this period and assuming you have 10000+ chips there is no need to help them out the door. The size of the blinds means that getting involved in any pot that you don't win is going to dent your stack and a couple of missed flops can put you right back in the mixer. If you're comfortable for chips why risk it? That said it hurts to fold AQs in EP and see the maniac with AJo push and pick up a short-stack, but you'll get revenge on him later (and he probably doesn't have a girlfriend).

    I've entered this period as either chip leader or close to it 15000-20000 chips and each time I've dwindled to mid-size stack. The problem is that with a big stack you are viewed as the ideal person to double off of, so any raise to steal or protect blinds is likely to be reraised. In a normal MTT this would be fine as in the long run (assuming you know what you are doing) you want people betting in to you to help build your stack. However you should be happy with your 20000 here as it can with good management take you across the finish line.

    For example; There are 23 people left, you have a stack of 22000 and are dealt TT in the Cut off, blinds 300/600. You raise to 1800 and the button with 9000 reraises all-in. Now you have good odds to call, but the extra chips if you win will not make a huge difference to your chances to survial (though they would be nice), while dropping to 13000 will make it possible you'll be dragged into trouble. Now the call might still be the right thing to do, but unlike a normal MTT where the correct approach is to aim for 1st place, the approach here is far more passive with a big stack.


    End-game 4th hour+

    Down to 2 tables...

    Your eyes should be firmly on the prize and with 20 left you are better than 1 in 3 three to qualify.

    After the tightness of the previous hour I'm always surprised at how quickly 20 becomes 12-14. Partly this is due to the short-stacks making a move but I also think people panic at this stage and start compromising their play. In a normal MTT this makes sense as it's the top few places that pay and a gamble may make sense, but not here. Conversely it tightens up from 13 to 11 as everyone is conscious of making the final table (a nice thing to achieve in any MTT). There are also 6 or 7 people at each table, so the blinds come quicker. All in all a great time to do some stealing if your stack needs a boost.

    With 2 tables you should start paying attention to where you stand in the stacks. With 7 qualifiers you want to be top 5 with 20 left as with the sudden doubling of the average stack from 20 to 10 someone and probably a couple of people are going to get a boost and overtake you.

    I hardly play a hand at this point, there as there is no need and assuming I have chips I'm folding JJ in early and mid position unless all those to act after me are very short stacks. There will inevitably be some lunatic left (who will probably be chip leader) and what you really don't want is to raise JJ in mid-position and get reraised all-in by the maniac defending his blind with Ax. In a normal MTT it's a dream result, here it's an uneccessary risk.

    The blinds will now be hurting everyone and involvement in any pot is a potentially defining decision. At 10000 - 15000 with blinds of 500/1000 any raise is a significant part of your stack and hard to walk away from. All short stacks will be looking to pull the trigger. Let them shoot it out.

    I've seen many chip leaders at this point bust out after a couple of beats versus smaller stacks. It's also an opportunity for the small stacks to make a move as big stacks look for reasons to call allins as every person taken out is one closer to the prize.


    Final Table

    This is the really different part. Final Tables of normal MTTs are a varied bunch depending on the players and the relative stack sizes. Often the short stacks will be prepared to take chances in order to move up the money. Occassionally you'll see two relatively big stacks duke it out to try and get a shot at 1st. Not here... the name of the game is pick on shorty.

    Another fact of qualifiers is that you tend not to get the massive stacks of MTTs where an individual has 30%+ of the chips going into the final table. A more even distribution is more common with a couple of smaller stacks thrown in.

    Here's the chip distribution from the first hand at the final table of a qualifier;

    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 1: tobor2 ( $20332 )
    Seat 2: CardLarceny1 ( $7041 )
    Seat 3: trisiq ( $17419 )
    Seat 4: exiteleven ( $17777 )
    Seat 8: Irexes ( $13466 )
    Seat 5: arf55 ( $27106 )
    Seat 6: BidzYo ( $16796 )
    Seat 7: Grits2004 ( $20720 )
    Seat 9: ferdee ( $15754 )
    Seat 10: cp6263 ( $13589 )
    Level:12 Blinds (500/1000)

    Note the size of the blinds relative to the stacks and also with one exception the small range of stack sizes.

    Your position here in the pecking order is of supreme importance. The blinds are likely to be uncontested unless the small stack (or stacks) are involved.
    When the small stack is involved, expect a raise from someone effectively putting the small stack allin. Although I've not seen open collusion, there is a definite sense that it is the duty of players to put in a raise to ensure the small stack doesn't receive uncontested blinds.

    If you are the shortest stack then waiting and pushing are the only options (unless you are able to dent the blinds enough if they call you may be able to steal). However if you are in the position I was in above, ie not in immediate trouble but possibly going out on the bubble, then perhaps better to act now and steal while attention is on the short stack, than wait til you are on the bubble and people are looking for an excuse to call what may appear a desperation move.

    Another strategy employed (common to many MTTs final tables) is to ensure that the small stack is hit by the rising blind. You may find it unethical, but keep an eye on the clock as waiting an extra 20 seconds to make a bet may cause the blinds to rise by 1000 and move you a step up the pecking order to safety.

    It's impossible to overstress the focus on the small stacks, there is almost no action between anyone with more than 15000-20000 chips. However (this is obvious but I've seen some stupid things) if the small stack on the bubble goes allin preflop and there are two or more callers both of whom have the small stack covered, don't bet, check it down. I've seen four callers for an allin on the bubble raised allin post-flop by a guy who was bluffing, causing the other three to fold and the qualifier to last another 30 minutes.

    Once you reach the bubble there are essentially two moves, fold or allin. If you are the short stack you are looking to double and everyone will be looking to call. If you are a big stack, you will be folding unless you have an absolute monster and then only looking for a call from the short-stack. It's not pretty and it tends to last about half an hour.


    However the prize is nice and a shot at a Ferrari or villa in France or whatever floats your boat. And of course once you've made the Qualification everyone goes all-in the very next hand which is extremely entertaining. And after all that's what it's all about.


    Rex
    Last edited by Irexes; 03-19-2005 at 08:09 AM.

  3. #3
    River Rat Holis's Avatar
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    Nice writeup!

  4. #4
    Poker Hustler Diggler's Avatar
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    Wow, no doubt, I'd like to go through it when I have more time...
    Quote Originally Posted by poker player 100 View Post
    However the players there are tight and just the flops are hit or miss IMO.

  5. #5
    PokerForums God the alex's Avatar
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    It seems like people are really into WSOP qualifiers as of late, so I'll bump this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
    GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
    GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

  6. #6
    change my title babo bonchkid's Avatar
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    I don't know how I missed this the first time, but this is high quality material. God work Rex!
    “There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

  7. #7
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    well done, very nice writeup. Although I feel that when I have a big stack in the 3rd hour, I've got to use it. Usually you can start playing some real poker because most of the maniacs are gone, and you can push people when they're begging to be pushed at this point. Nice article.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbdbarry
    well done, very nice writeup. Although I feel that when I have a big stack in the 3rd hour, I've got to use it. Usually you can start playing some real poker because most of the maniacs are gone, and you can push people when they're begging to be pushed at this point. Nice article.
    That is the difference between satellites and progressive pay-out games.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irexes
    (though I wouldn't compromise too far, Qxs is never a powerhouse)
    [/I]
    This is so wrong dude Qxs is THE most powerful hand in holdem, just like QQQxs is the most powerful hand in omaha. Everything else was pretty good.

  10. #10
    Banned Irexes's Avatar
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    Thanks folks. Qualification for the million dollar is my most recent success following this approach. I was chip leader with 30-40 left and folded away merrily while various people built stacks, took the lead and then busted down again. I realised just how ludicrously tight I was being when with 4 left (2 to qualify) and the chip lead I folded JJ utg. In a "normal" MTT a definite raise but waiting for the others to knock each other out seemed the +EV thing to do.

    And of course Beav T7s is the real powerhouse with all the straight potential.

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