Ok, I wanted to start a healthy discussion about giving your opponents rope. This came to my mind after watching Hardings $100Nl video where he floped a set of 3s, the guy leads for like 3/5 pot and harding pops him up 3.5 times. As soon as he typed the bet in my reaction was, nooooooooooooooooooo, way too high.

So I had a discussion with harding, a healthy one I may add. I advised that in that situation I would give my opponent a little rope. Checking there is very risky but sucks your opponent in. A min raise ain't too bad but it screams "I have a set". I think a trickier and more appealing bet is 2.5-3 times. Because when you have a set you want a call. Sure the board had draws but most boards have.

So I want your thoughts, how much rope do you give opponents? How much rope is good to give? Can you get so trappy you end up trapping yourself into a hand where you let your opponents hand overtake you?

I've put a few hands below where I gave opponents some rope. Granted I play half stacked but the same theory stands. When you have a set you are trying to get all your opponents chips in the middle, whatever way you can.

OnGame's Room No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) by Hand Converter CG

Button ($197)
SB ($102.20)
BB ($112.75)
UTG ($173.65)
Hero ($100)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
UTG raises to $5, Hero calls $5, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($16) , , (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $10, Hero calls $10, BB folds.

Turn: ($36) (2 players)
UTG bets $20, Hero raises to $50, UTG calls $30.

River: ($136) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $35 (All-In), UTG calls $35.

Final Pot: $206
Main Pot: $206, between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero ($206).
UTG has Tc 9d (one pair, tens).
Hero has 8c 8h (three of a kind, eights).
Outcome: MP wins $206.

OnGame's Room No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) by Hand Converter CG

MP ($355.55)
Hero ($97.00)
SB ($230.85)
BB ($293.25)
UTG ($296.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
UTG raises to $8, MP folds, Hero calls $8, SB folds, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($25) , , (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $18, Hero calls $18, BB calls $18.

Turn: ($79) (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $35, BB calls $35, UTG calls $35.

River: ($184) (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $36 (All-In), BB calls $36, UTG calls $36.

Final Pot: $292

Main Pot: $292, between Hero, BB and UTG. > Pot won by Hero ($292).
BB has Ac Qd (two pair, aces and fours).
UTG doesn't show. (he had A9o)
Hero has 7s 7c (full house, sevens full of fours).
Outcome: Hero wins $292.

you forgot to post where you slowplayed a set and your opponent completed a nut flush draw, maybe ive just had too many bad experiences slowplaying but im raising 3x the majority of the time

I think it's very opponent dependent. My thoughts are:

- Against you're average calling station fish, I want to be very aggressive and try to get the money in as early as possible. They are calling any draw or any pair they can find.
- Against a LAG player, I think giving them rope like you describe is fine depending on how drawy the board is (the first hand you post, I don't like slowplaying it, very draw heavy board so I think the money should be going in early).
- Against a TAG, I like raising early as they are unlikely to continue to fire later streets without a hand (a hand they would probably get alot of money in with on the flop). If they know you to be a TAG, they will also know that your raises will often be bluffs depending on the board texture and so often a raise will show more weakness to them than a call.
- You have to be seen to be playing your strong hands aggressively. If people see you putting small raises in or slowplaying to excess with big hands, you will get very little credit for any bluffs you are pulling later on.
- If you mix in a few raises with complete air (and maybe get one shown down) you will get alot of action from playing sets etc. aggro that you wouldn't usually get. I think this helps get alot more value than slowplaying in the long run.

Good topic for discussion though, I'm interested to see what others think.

Originally Posted by davidab157

I think it's very opponent dependent. My thoughts are:

- Against you're average calling station fish, I want to be very aggressive and try to get the money in as early as possible. They are calling any draw or any pair they can find.
- Against a LAG player, I think giving them rope like you describe is fine depending on how drawy the board is (the first hand you post, I don't like slowplaying it, very draw heavy board so I think the money should be going in early).
- Against a TAG, I like raising early as they are unlikely to continue to fire later streets without a hand (a hand they would probably get alot of money in with on the flop). If they know you to be a TAG, they will also know that your raises will often be bluffs depending on the board texture and so often a raise will show more weakness to them than a call.
- You have to be seen to be playing your strong hands aggressively. If people see you putting small raises in or slowplaying to excess with big hands, you will get very little credit for any bluffs you are pulling later on.
- If you mix in a few raises with complete air (and maybe get one shown down) you will get alot of action from playing sets etc. aggro that you wouldn't usually get. I think this helps get alot more value than slowplaying in the long run.

Good topic for discussion though, I'm interested to see what others think.

Nice reply. I think you are correct, rope is very opponent dependant. When you say raise can you be a bit more specific on size?

Also the question I like the most to describe this discussion. When do you want the poker hand to end? I felt in my game, I was so used to those outdraws at $50 NL that I started pushing flops and turns hard. As I refined my game at $200NL I noticed that people love to float, be agressive and make moves. Hence I gave them more rope.

So maybe its not just opponent specific, it's level specific. I did notice that people get in on the flop more often at $100NL than $200NL but people make more moves on the turn at $200NL.

Originally Posted by shalesey_boy

When you say raise can you be a bit more specific on size?

I more or less raise it just under pot size. I dunno, probably between 2/3 and 3/4 pot size. I'll do that with the nuts or a bluff so I don't think people can read me based on my bet sizes.

If the board isn't too draw heavy and someone puts in a retardedly small bet I'll bring it down slightly (again with bluffs or the nuts), ie. they bet $5 into a $25 pot, I'm more likely to raise to $20 than to $30-35.

I think at 100nl there are still so many donks that won't let go of middle pair that it's often best just to go super aggro, whereas when you encounter more grinders who have a couple of braincells, it is often good to mix in a few slowplays to add some deception to your range.

Absolutely no way in hell I'm slowplaying that 5d 7s 8s flop.

5h, whatever.

Still awful. If UTG had checked he could have made his straight for free.

Forget the opponents. How much rope I give is dependent on me. And the style I have been playing.

All these poker books say you need to change your playing style often so your better opponents can't figure out what you're doing.

I think that's bullshit. I like to play solidly and consistently. I mark smart moves, but I play the exact same way each time. Soon enough, the better opponents come out of the woodwork, starting to exploit me by making weird calls and re-raises....

I'll play the same routines it for half an hour if I have to, to condition my opponents. And when a gem of a hand comes out, I exploit my opponent who thinks he is exploiting me. Half an hour of planning culminates in that one moment when I make a huge profit. Astonishingly enough, I can do this to the same opponent(s) more than once. They doesn't realize that I exploited them -- I guess that would wound their pride. Instead, the table thinks I'm a decent (but weak) player who got lucky.

After milking one table a few times, I leave and go to the next...