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Hand #4142980-2462 at Palm Harbor ($.25/$.50 Hold'em Kill)
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Started at 28/Jan/05 18:09:08

Ardmorite is at seat 0 with $25.80.
0TheBear is at seat 1 with $6.90.
jonnyf is at seat 2 with $26.60.
iuz is at seat 3 with $21.65.
catdaddyxl is at seat 4 with $23.90.
alohateam is at seat 5 with $28.50.
DaHoovers is at seat 7 with $24.
beavis68 is at seat 8 with $17.15.
GRich25 is at seat 9 with $36.10.
The button is at seat 7.
The partial kill button is at seat 5.

beavis68 posts the small blind of $.10.
GRich25 posts the big blind of $.25.

Ardmorite: -- --
0TheBear: -- --
jonnyf: -- --
iuz: -- --
catdaddyxl: -- --
alohateam: -- --
DaHoovers: -- --
beavis68:
GRich25: -- --

Pre-flop:

Ardmorite calls. 0TheBear folds. jonnyf folds.
iuz folds. catdaddyxl folds. alohateam calls.
DaHoovers folds. beavis68 raises to $.50. GRich25
re-raises to $.75. Ardmorite calls. alohateam
folds. beavis68 re-raises to $1. GRich25 calls.
Ardmorite calls.

Flop (board: ):

beavis68 checks. GRich25 checks. Ardmorite checks

Here I figured someone had at LEAST JJ - so I thought I would check-call. These guys had not been that aggressive

Turn (board: ):

Ok, they all checked? Hmmmm - guess I will bet.

beavis68 bets $.50. GRich25 folds. Ardmorite folds.
beavis68 is returned $.50 (uncalled).



Hand #4142980-2462 Summary:

$.15 is raked from a pot of $3.25.
beavis68 wins $3.10.
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What do you guys think? i really expected to get called down.

what does holdem kill mean?

I usually do, but people will call on the flop with just about anything, I had been auto-betting flops like this with AK and AQ, I decided to mix it up here.

Plus, I was + that someone had JJ+.

I feel I gained more information on this hand by checking.

Oh yeah, also, I had absolutely NO draw but my overs in this hand.

This is probably why I am a SLAP instead of a SLAA.

Bleh this is a situation where I always bet, but never really thought about why I do. :/

The best I can give you is this:

First, if we check, we are always calling for one SB back to us, so we are definitely check-calling one bet.

So if we are going to spend one bet on the flop we should measure the differences between betting/check-calling.

Check-calling = good because:
Avoids getting raised by TT+ from the PF 3-bettor
We can fold if the action goes bet-raise in front of us
If it checks thru, the chances that we have the best hand goes upupup, and we spent nothing to find that out

These are pretty solid reasons, especially the first reason. It's probably 50/50 that the PF 3-bettor has a TT+.

Now for betting. The thing about betting is that I don't think I can really pinpoint one great reason to bet, but there are some little things that can happen that add up.

Betting = good because:
It's a raggedy flop, we might have the best hand right now, so betting is for value.
Someone could incorrectly fold a hand like QJ.
We could potentially fold a hand like 66 and get headsup with a worse/dominated hand.
Because the pot is big, we don't need a great amount of folding equity to make this bet profitable, so if betting is a mistake, it's not a very big one. (On the flip side, the nature of the big pot reduces our folding equity already. Circular stuff going on here? )

If you look at the betting advantages, specifically the QJ and 66 ones, at the cost of one small bet we can vastly improve our pot equity in a big pot, which is a huge gain in terms of EV at a really small cost! But you said something like they'll call with anything in this spot, and they should call with the majority of their hands because they're getting like 10/11-1. The ciruclar thing again :/. The tougher part about betting the flop is deciding if it's worth it to bet again on the turn, where you're more likely to fold a hand like QJ or 66 because a) the doubled bet-size, b) you capped PF, bet ther flop, bet the turn (representing big strength). But you are also risking more as well.

I see a lot of similarities in reasoning between this hand and the Q7h hand where hero raises big multiway pot with middle pair, so it's prob. best to look at that hand example too. I don;t have SSH with me now so I can;t look at it.