OHL strategy questions

**Shade** · 01-19-2005

So I"m reading through my new toy here...Ray Zee's "High-Low-Split Poker Omaha Eight-or-Better for Advanced Players." Not a difficult read thus far (about 2/3 of the way in), but it did pique a couple theoretical questions that I thought I'd post here and get others' takes on them.

For the purpose of both questions, assume a low fixed-limit table (not necessarily microlimit...but not $20/$40)

1. Zee says at tighter tables with a low showing on the board and multiple players in the pot (yes, I know this is somewhat contradictory to the notion of a tight table...its Zee's language though) that it is correct to fold your A-3 low because you can guess the A-2 is out there (assume you have no realistic chance at the high here...you're playing for strictly 1/2 the pot at best).

My question: Isn't this a sort of Catch 22 though? The more people in the pot, the fewer times my A-3 has to hold up and score half the pot...right? As long as a raising war doesn't break out, I'm still better off calling a single bet at the river aren't I?

2. On a broader level, obviously there's always the possibility for pots to be quartered in OHL, but how do you (or do you) take this into consideration when calculating pot odds? The calculations are pretty obvious if I've got a lock high/low and a chance to catch the other half, but if the half pot is the best you're likely to get, how do people go about adjusting their pot odds calculations to account for the possibility that you might get 1/4 (or worse) a pot? If you don't take this into consideration, then aren't you constantly over-stating your odds of making a bet/calling/raising and potentially leaking money in the long term?

Hope that was clear enough on #2.

**Beavis68** · 01-19-2005

does it really say omaha in the title? My copy is 7-stud an omaha.

Called High/Low split for advanced players.

I actually found the book to be rather useless. I was very disappointed in it.

I have never played in a game where I would fold A3 in that spot, even on UB when the table is tight (3-4 players) seems like you hardly ever see A2.

You may want to post this on twoplustwo (don't hate me Kid) there are some serious O8/b players there.

**eclinchy** · 01-19-2005

1) Yes, you fold your A3. Not only because the A2 is probably out there, but even if it isn't, you'll only get quartered by another A3.

2) What you should do is calculate the chance of being quartered, and add a quarter of the pot size times that percentage to half the pot size times your chances of winning half the pot. I think that made sense.

**Steve Ruddock** · 01-19-2005

1) with no high potential this an automatic fold. there is a 50% chance there is an A2 and a 20 something% (I can't think of the exact number right now, i believe it's 23%)that there is another A3. and you have no backup so there is about a 25% chance that if your low is good it will get counterfeited by the river.

Drawing to a non nut low only with multiple opponents is the biggest mistake in this game. Calling with a non nut low with multiple opponents is right behind it.

2) Zee overestimates getting quartered, he plays high, tight, aggressive games. Getting quartered is never really that bad UNLESS you are heads up. 3 handed you'll lose about 1/2-1 small bet, thats not a big deal.

When you have 1 side locked up and a reasonable shot at the other side you need to be maximizing your wins, not worrying about getting quartered.

here is an example

5/10 O8 - your onthe button with As2cTcQd and 4 players limped, you call and so do both blinds ($35 pot). the flop is 34Q rainbow.

the small blind bets and is called by 2 players and you call as well. the turn is an 8, this time the SB checks and the another player bets, the other folds, you raise and are called in both spots.

the river is a K and everyone checks so you check as well afraid of being quartered. And yup you were right you are quartered. one opponent has A277 and the other has 3458. the pot is $115 and you collect your quarter, $28. for a total loss of -$2. I told you being quartered isn't so bad!

But what if you bet the river, the player holding 2 pair might fold winning you the high end too. which would give you a $61 profit. If the 2 pair guy does call you end up losing $4 total.

So whats the better play? checking it down and always losing $2? or betting and 75% of the time losing $4 but 25% of the time winning $61?

So to answer your question, when you have a lock low and any high potential you should play it pretty aggressively if you have 2 or more opponents.

**Shade** · 01-19-2005

Originally Posted by Beavis68

does it really say omaha in the title? My copy is 7-stud an omaha.

Called High/Low split for advanced players.

Yeah, that's actually the same book I have...I was under the impression that it was actually originally published as two seperate books (one for 7-stud 8/b and the other for Omaha H/L) so I only typed in the title for the Omaha half.

Haven't cracked the front half on stud yet.

**Beavis68** · 01-20-2005

That stud section is very dry.

I have found on Party and UB, the number of people in the pot has nothing to do with how good their hands are.

I have made a lot of money on both sites with non-nut draws, as long as the betting isn't heavy. UB has tightened up a bit, but the players are still more likely to have K742 than A2xx, they usually raise with any A2 and any suited A-wheel.

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