Obviously this will be greatly player dependent but if you want you can differentiate between super tight/average/donk when coming up with figures but I wonder how deep stack you need to be (I would measure relative to the preflop action) to consider getting away from certain hands.

E.g If I have a $100 stack and I raise to $25 preflop and get 1 call, I will never fold AA on the flop. My opponent has got 4-1 implied odds and no hand has better odds than 4-1 to outflop aces, therefore I know I have made a long term +EV play, even if the flop comes down J Q K and I know I am most likely behind to trips.

However if I have a $100 stack and raise to $4 preflop, I am giving 25-1 implied odds to my opponent. In these circumstances if the board comes down J Q K all of 1 suit, which doesn't match either of my aces, I will fold quite easily if put all in.

So how deepstack do you think you need to be to consider laying down such hands as:

on flop

on flop

on flop

Or other tough laydowns. I know that reads, number of players in pot and previous action will make a huge difference but I am just trying to start some discussion.

in all 3 examples, are the situations based on whether u limped in pf and got to see the flop for 1 BB, or did someone raise pf and u flat called?

anyways, for the first situation:

if im OOP, and i bet first, and opp raises me.. i assume he has KQ and flat call the raise and see what happens on the turn. I probably check-call the turn.

If im in position, and someone bets at it before me, I raise and see what happens. If my raise is called, and its checked to me on the turn, then i will continue firing.

The same goes for the 2nd hand. If im raised on the flop, then i assume he has the straight, and therefore slowdown. And probably go into check-call mode thinking im behind to the made straight but getting good implied odds to fill up and stack opp.

I would not 3-bet the flop in situation 1 and 2, because 3-betting the flop just gets all the weaker hands to fold, and ur only going to get called or re-raised if ur opponent has a better hand then you. Thus if u 3-bet the flop with a hand like that u lose the long term value that u would have gotten from ur opponent if he was raising you with a weaker holding.


for the 3rd situation..
i am never folding that ever. unless i have like 200BBs+++ at the table and im in a hand with someone who covers me, and i have a really good read on him that he has a higher set.



so anyways back to the first question, how deep stack would I need to be to consider laying down hand 1 and 2.
probably like 60BBs+. Hand number 1, I may laydown on the flop, depending on how the hand played out etc. and who im up against and if there are multiple opponents giving me action or not. But most likely for hand number 1 i would call a flop raise, and check-call a turn bet. Hand number 2 however, i probably wouldnt laydown till the river, cuz of the huge implied odds im getting. Unless there was very heavy action from multiple opponents on the flop. Like for example, I bet, someone raises and someone pushes. etc.. Whether I would laydown Hand number 1 and 2 on the flop, is very dependant on the flop action.

Preflop with all these holdings I am usually raising or folding with the occasional call. For me these are all marginal hands and something has to be done to gain an edge early with them. In particular I'd really like the possibility of a high PP knocking about.

1: is flush/twopair/set and with preflop raise PP driven. Your dead a part of the time but there's enough left to be all-in on the flop (over pair, sets two pair will defend against the flush)

2:has weaker call all-in possibiliies - a preflop raise would throw high PP into the flush draw. I'd really like to keep the pot medium sized on the flop - I'd probably freeze up on a club (as would a high PP) - but I don't want to make it free AND if the Tc falls - I want his stack.. This is a very post flop/player hand..

3: I'm betting the flop to see who I pick up..

In truth all these holdings I've played a zillion different ways..

Deep stacking to 200b is about the table. Last night after 40 minutes play I busted someone to 100b with Q7os (TP crap Kicker)on a flush heavy board (I had no flush possibilities - BUT I'd been watching him and I'd laid down some ground bait- he knew he could bluff me down )

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