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08-10-2006, 04:22 AM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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Cash Player vs. Tourney Player
I've realised recently that I am a much better cash game player than I am a tournament player. Unfortunately it took me some time to realise this and I lost a lot of tourney buy-ins during my time of self discovery. But that's not the point of this thread.
I really enjoy playing tournaments and would like to improve my game but I'm having a tough time figuring out exactly what it is I need to work on.
What could make me a strong cash game player but a weak tournement player?
What kinds of holes should I look for in my game?
Are there any PT stats I should focus on?
I've read that some players are just natural cash game players but weak tournament players. Does this mean I'm destined to be a mediocre tournament player at best?
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08-10-2006, 04:38 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brunson, Amarillo, Crandall? Do I need to say more.
Posts: 3,030
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You could be playing to tight. In cash games you can right a whole lot longer for great cards, but in tourn , with the blinds going up every 10 or 20 minutes you cant play as tight. Harringto on Hold'em is a great tournament book if you want a read.
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08-10-2006, 04:59 AM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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I've read both HOHs already and am waiting for the third one to be shipped from pokersource. And I don't think playing too tight is my problem. My VP$P for tourneys is 29.26 over 500 hands. I realise that's a small sampling but it's pretty close to my 26.29 over 4500 hands in cash games.
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08-10-2006, 05:06 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brunson, Amarillo, Crandall? Do I need to say more.
Posts: 3,030
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How do you bust out of tournaments, bad beats, bad play, or you get too short stacked.
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08-10-2006, 05:34 AM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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Yes. lol.
I think my biggest problem is patience. When I hit that inevitable run of bad cards, I get anxious. I watch my Q drop and begin to think that I need to start making moves in order to survive. This is when I start to make bad bluffs that leave me short stacked or bad calls against the odds (and my better judgement.)
Another problem I have is my medium stack play. I'm great with a large stack and my short stack play is a work of art but when I have a medium sized stack I'm lost.
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08-10-2006, 05:42 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 4,796
Limits Played: $2-$4 NL
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Quote:
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My VP$P for tourneys is 29.26 over 500 hands
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Is this for SNG's, MTT's and primarily 10 handed or 6 handed? I think this will be for variable numbers of players so probably can't take much from it.
In tournies I have more success when I am more aggresive than cash games I think, especially as you get deeper in.
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08-10-2006, 05:56 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brunson, Amarillo, Crandall? Do I need to say more.
Posts: 3,030
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Your Q shouldn't matter, Your M is way more important. You need to worry when you M reaches around 10.
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08-10-2006, 06:07 AM
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Poker Professional
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,597
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr.McJ
What could make me a strong cash game player but a weak tournement player?
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IMO, its the ability to switch gears. In cash games, you can play tight aggressive solid throughout ur whole session and be a winner (never having to switch gears). But in tourney's this is not the case, you have to be able to switch gears as the blinds increase, and as ur stack size diminishes.
Another part would be making pf bluffs, in cash games I never EVER make PF bluffs with shitty hands. In fact I rarely even bluff at all in cash games. In tourneys however, when people start tightening up and if ur stack allows it, you have to be very active at the table and make alot of blind steals, and RR steals etc. Alot of tourney play is made preflop. In cash games however, alot of the play is made postflop.
For example, in cash games I would never dream of raising UTG with J7s. Doing this play in a cash game would just lose u alot of money. In a tourney however, if the table is tight due to large blinds, and my stack size/M allows my to be more active at the table and blind steal. Then I will raise any 2 cards UTG, just because I kno that people are afraid of my stack and that a UTG raise gets so much more respect. Thus people will fold to me more often preflop, allowing my to take antes/blinds.
Also the fact that if u want to be a good tourney player, you have to allow urself to make some moves from time to time, and basically to be fearless. However, if u play a cash game with this sort of mentality, you will go broke in no time.
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08-10-2006, 07:41 AM
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Fish
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 59
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I am a little conflicted over this too.
I play TAG, and it does work well in cash games. However in tournaments, my biggest question is when to start opening up. Especially in the first few rounds. I see other players opening up and trying to build their stack early, while I try to play tight and let some attrition take place. I am having a problem of knowing when to loosen up. It is either too late, and I am short stacked, or too early and I blow my tourney...I am frustrated to say the least.
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08-10-2006, 09:01 AM
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PokerForums God
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nort Side o' Shi-kawgo
Posts: 7,961
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I'm the opposite. Hold 'em's a pretty boring game outside of the tournament setting to me unless it's a 4 or 5 handed game. There's a lot of money to be made and a lot of idiots to give it away, though.
I prefer PLO, Stud8, and lately Razz for cash, though. Hold 'em bores the shit out of me for cash. I have to play really shorthanded (or heads up) or play about 6-7 tables to keep my interest in a cash game. That's why I only play Hold 'em at the office. It's just background noise.
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